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Post by maartennl on Sept 15, 2015 3:17:22 GMT -5
Hi maartennl, In the frist post, just around halfway through, you can see how you can connect your 50mm hose to the Erika. you'll just need a little bit of tape to make it a snug fit. Hey Jonathan. thanks for you reply. I contacted my dealer recently and he advised a different hose. i therefore puchased the following: www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=AXD250066its 26 euro's here in The Netherlands (you know.....water, windmills, wooden shoes etc.) I have the following combination: Mafell Erika 85 Festool CTL 26E Oneida Flex Hose The hose will be delivered this week along with some other Mafell goodies for my 85. I'll let you know how it works!
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Post by jonathan on Sept 15, 2015 3:55:35 GMT -5
Hey Maarten, Groeten uit België Ik geloof dat die slang ook gebundeld zat bij een oneida dust deputy die ik een tijd geleden aangeschaft heb. Als ik het me goed herinner past deze inderdaad op de Festool zuigers. Let wel, ik vond ze niet echt flexibel zijn en heb dan maar de 50mm Festool slang gekocht. Met vriendelijke groet, Jonathan
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Post by GhostFist on Sept 15, 2015 5:51:16 GMT -5
What did you call me? Kidding
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Post by jonathan on Sept 15, 2015 5:58:51 GMT -5
Sorry, my bad. I thought maartennl had sent me a private message, so I replied in Dutch.
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Post by maartennl on Sept 17, 2015 2:57:24 GMT -5
Hey Jonathan, zuiderbuur!
The Oneida hose just arrived. And yes it is the connectionhose used on the DustDeputy.
It may be less flexible then the more expensive Festool-hose but in my setup i have the CTL26 vacuum behind my 85, so the hose will be straight as an arrow.
with every tool i try to get the hose as straight as possible to ensure the best possible flow, with the much longer bogstandard 36mm Festool hose that is not always possible when using my OF1010 of MT55
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Post by maartennl on Sept 21, 2015 2:52:00 GMT -5
hhhmmm.....okay.....question guys
i used the big Oneida hose in combination with the Y-piece.
i find it that the dustcollection is way worse then when i only have the 36mm hose connected to the back without using the Y-piece.
i have a Festool CTL26 (on auto, empty bag and full speed).
anyone else have this problem?
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Sept 21, 2015 3:03:12 GMT -5
Pass, Jonathan
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Post by jonathan on Sept 21, 2015 4:56:28 GMT -5
Hey maartennl,
I haven't tried it yet with just a single 36mm on the back of the saw. I've always used both points of suction.
Everyone has a different view as to what is acceptable dust collection. That said, without modifying something to the blade shroud, a single Festool vacuum isn't powerful enough (in my opinion) to get really good dust collection. Just the way it is. You need a stronger vacuum or use 2.
When you split the airflow to go through 2 hoses, it makes sense that you get less suction compared to a single hose.
This may be a bad analogy, but it's the best I can come with right now You could compare it to a road with a single lane vs a road with 2 lanes. On a road with 2 lanes you'll have less cars on both lanes than you have on a single lane road. The same goes for a vacuuum. The total suction remains more or less the same, it's just split over 2 hoses.
I'm also not satisfied with the dust collection on the 85. Admittedly, dust collection is a big pet peeve of mine. In the short time I've had it, I've noticed the design of the blade shroud under the table could have been much better at channeling the dust. Right now it's just a big box surrounding the blade. To the vacuum it's just a big void and the airflow/suction of the vacuum just gets lost in there. There's very little to no suction that makes it to the front of the blade when using a Festool vac with 138 CFM. The Bosch GAS 35 with 157 CFM I bought especially for this reason does a noticable better job, but still not good enough (for me anyway). You can clearly see the difference between the Protool and Bosch vacs in the videos I've posted.
In short, the Erika 85 needs more CFM than most "regular" vacuums can generate.
I'm still working on concocting a solution myself. But you could start off by taping off the hole in front of the blade change Arbor with some masking tape. that way the airflow at least can't escape through there. Not sure if it'll make any difference though.
Another thing that I've noticed is that when you don't have enough suction at the front of the blade, the dust goes into the shroud by the rotating movement of the blade, but somehow it gets thrown back out onto the talbe surface. In my tests where I had more suction, that particular issue was much improved.
Another thing you might try is turning down the speed down 1 notch.
Sorry I can't give you a simple fix maartennl. For now it seems it is what it is, until someone comes along with better advice or a modification to the saw.
For now, I'm using the Erika 85 with 2 vacuums. I run both vacuums with a shortened 50mm hose to a Festool Y-splitter into the Mafell Y-splitter. This setup gives me pretty good collection. I'll see if I can do a short video tonight to compare the results.
Oh, another thing I've noticed is that I get better dust collection when I use my slider to push the material through the blade compared to when I do the exact same cut using the pull function. Not a clue as to why that is though.
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Post by maartennl on Sept 21, 2015 6:26:34 GMT -5
Hey Jonathan thank you, i understand your explanation fully, i know that by enlarging the diametre of the hose your airspeed drops.
For now, I'm using the Erika 85 with 2 vacuums. I run both vacuums with a shortened 50mm hose to a Festool Y-splitter into the Mafell Y-splitter. This setup gives me pretty good collection. I'll see if I can do a short video tonight to compare the results.
you currently run two Y-splitters......may i suggest the following for you to try out. Lose the two Y-splitters. Vacuum 1 directly on the back exit of the saw and vacuum 2 directly on the blade guard.
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Post by jonathan on Sept 21, 2015 6:44:21 GMT -5
maartennl,
That's what I did at first, but I quickly ran into problems with pieces jamming on the riving knife. Seems the grey hose on the blade guard can very easily pull the riving knife out of alignment.
Placing a Y splitter at the back of the saw instead of directly on the vacuum struck me as weird to start with because it's not the most effienct method. But now I've had these issues, I'm beginning to suspect they did it to give the top grey hose more stability so it doesn't drag the riving knife out of alignment so easily. Don't know... I just know my riving knife is iffy and pulls out of alignment very quick.
For such an expensive saw the Erika does have some "points of attention" it seems
Might be an idea to look at fabricating some kind of clip or hose holder that fits or slides onto the dovetail extrusion to hold the second hose there. That way the Y splitter can be eliminated.
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Post by jonathan on Sept 21, 2015 11:28:27 GMT -5
I've already told you I noticed a lot of dust is being blown back out at the front of the blade enclosure. So I tried a quick little idea with some masking tape.
You always get more dust being thrown to the left side (operator view).
I think that is why the slots in the blade shroud are there, to aid in extracting the dust in that gets thrown to the left.
Since I also noticed that a large portion of the dust that goes into the front of the blade shroud gets thrown back out somehow at the very front. I thought, why not try making a little barrier using some tape.
(Click to enlarge)
The tape is easiest to position when you tilt the blade to around 22°.
Here are the results of 5 cuts in 18mm MDF. Cuts are about 20cm long and made with the pull-function of the saw.
1) Bosch GAS 35 connected through 120cm long 50mm Festool hose going to the Mafell Y-splitter.
Left: No tape modification. Right: With tape modification.
(Click to enlarge)
2) Bosch GAS 35 connected through 150cm long 36mm Festool hose going to the port on the back. Protool VCP 260 conneced through 3.5m long 32mm Protool hose. This hose is then connected to the grey 32mm hose going to the blade guard on the top of the table.
Left: No tape modification. Right: With tape modification.
(Click to enlarge)
My rudimentary conclusion is that: * When there is enough suction (using 2 vacuums) , the modification still helps but the difference is less dramatic. * When there is little suction (only using a single vacuum), the tape makes a significant difference in blocking dust from being thrown back out.
maartennl, this one might be interesting for you to try out.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Sept 21, 2015 19:37:49 GMT -5
In short, the Erika 85 needs more CFM than most "regular" vacuums can generate.
Hi Jonathan! Have you considered Oneida's Dust Cobra dust extractor? I am considering it for use with my thickness planer and CMS router table. Looks like it delivers ~245cfm, roughly equivalent to two CT-style extractors. Not inexpensive, but it appears highly mobile and I don't own any tools that require a 4" hose so the 2.5" form factor works great for me. www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=XCKM010000-IND&CatId={88398A7C-ADBE-46C7-976A-AEAD1AE24147}
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Post by jonathan on Sept 22, 2015 0:18:17 GMT -5
Hey Tom, I've looked at that Dust Cobra in the past and it was tempting. But it would be too expensive to import here in Belgium. We pay 21% tax on the combined cost of the item and it's shipping. And that's in €, regardless of what the current exchange rate is.
On top of that we also pay a fee for manual opening and inspection of the item.
Unless I overlooked it, it's also 110V only. So unfortunately this is not an option for me. 2 of the Bosch vacs will get me there at 1/3 or less the cost of a Dust Cobra.
Using 2 vacuums and the small modifications to close off both outer ends of the blade shroud does give me good results. So I'll just settle for this setup and keep experimenting with different ideas and modifications to improve the dust collection.
BTW Tom, I saw on the FOG you ordered a 70? Has it arrived yet and what are your impressions so far?
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Sept 22, 2015 7:39:50 GMT -5
Hey Tom, I've looked at that Dust Cobra in the past and it was tempting. But it would be too expensive to import here in Belgium. We pay 21% tax on the combined cost of the item and it's shipping. And that's in €, regardless of what the current exchange rate is.
On top of that we also pay a fee for manual opening and inspection of the item.
Unless I overlooked it, it's also 110V only. So unfortunately this is not an option for me. 2 of the Bosch vacs will get me there at 1/3 or less the cost of a Dust Cobra.
Using 2 vacuums and the small modifications to close off both outer ends of the blade shroud does give me good results. So I'll just settle for this setup and keep experimenting with different ideas and modifications to improve the dust collection.
BTW Tom, I saw on the FOG you ordered a 70? Has it arrived yet and what are your impressions so far? Hi Jonathan! My apologies, I forgot that you hail from Belgium, yes I can see how it would be prohibitively expensive. I am going to buy a friend's Ultimate Dust Deputy (I already own one), so between two CT-style extractors and two Ultimate Dust Deputies and a Y-splitter set up in reverse, I should be able to achieve similar results to a Dust Cobra for my thickness planer. The Cobra is something I'd like to eventually get, but it's a ways down my priority list. YES, I finally finally ordered my Erika saw, and it's scheduled to arrive today!! I elected to go with an Erika 70 for two reasons: I decided that 240v would be too much of a headache when working on-site, and I was willing to trade the slightly deeper and longer cut of the 85 for the slightly smaller footprint and portability of the 70. For starters I just ordered the base saw and wheel kit. Once I've had the saw for a few weeks (and had time to collect some more invoices) I'll order the rest of the accessories I want, likely to include the MFA with 1m fence and drop stop, 1m extension rails and table, rip fence, CleanBox (when working on weak circuits), etc..... I'll post up my thoughts when I get a chance. Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and videos!
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Post by GhostFist on Sept 22, 2015 12:18:31 GMT -5
Looking forward to your thoughts and videos Tom
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