bengt
New Member
Posts: 25 
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Post by bengt on Jul 13, 2015 21:48:25 GMT -5
I have been eyeing some mafell tools for awhile, kss80 and pc1 jig saw but I feel the tools are overpriced. Not because they are not good enough but the lack of a multi year warranty (yes like Festool), the inability to handle them before buying, and the fact that there is only one seller in the USA. I am not trying to slam or get anybody worked up I just feel that the tools,are at a high price point without enough service especially down the road if they need to be repaired. What happens if Timberewolf goes under. Do all repairs have to be done in Germany after the 1 year warranty. I mean with these tools one would expect to keep them for years and are worth repairing. Is there anyway to encourage Mafell to broaden its distribution in the USA? I think it would go well for them as I see a slight slip in Festool quality of late.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2015 22:33:15 GMT -5
Pay the price to use tools with unique features , "built by professionals for professionals" .If you see no value in the tools you have many other choices .
"broaden distribution in the USA and see a slight slip in quality"..........says it all really.
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Post by Red on Jul 14, 2015 2:16:07 GMT -5
As we wouldn't allow ourselves [for years] to invest in Mafell tools -- through the "sole" US supplier -- I have to agree wholeheartedly with the title of this thread. YES, Mafell tools are way overpriced in the US, but ... the market has a way of weeding out those that would take advantage of working folks who, after all, are the market for Mafell tools (in the US anyway). I can only hope that the recent trend in the currency markets forces anyone shamelessly gouging working people to pay the ultimate price. Hang the monopolies!
As for the rest of it, I have to agree with Joe. If you think that another tool company offers a better all-around deal, exercise your free will and buy their tools. We've invested in the red and blue based on the best advice there is: the word of mouth of trusted craftsmen.
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Post by mick on Jul 14, 2015 2:35:03 GMT -5
I don't know about the U.S. But in Europe you get 3 years warranty
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Post by holmz on Jul 14, 2015 8:14:20 GMT -5
I find it odd that I can buy Mafell direct from Germany for less than the local FT price.
If you are willing to do 220v or use a transformer then it gets easier to use the Mafells.
I used the p1cc last night to cut some aluminum (aka aluminium). It was only just and IKEA curtain hander track, but I whacked in the Bosch fine toothed metal blade and set it on '2' and it was a champion cut. Nothing complicated but I like using the jig saw and the cut was better then previous ones using a hacksaw.
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Post by jalvis on Jul 14, 2015 11:26:12 GMT -5
Yup. Its expensive. "Over priced" is relative to the individuals income and use of the item. For example I'm not much of a car or truck enthusiast but almost everyone I know buy new vehicles that are way "over priced." As much as it doesn't make sense to me theres still a market. Most electronics and clothing fall into this category for me as well.
Some interesting thoughts on the subject are to compare journeyman wages from the 17th century to tool prices at the time. I remember reading that a handplane was equivalent to one months wages. Compare that to Mafell and things haven't changed much.
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jacko
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jacko on Jul 14, 2015 14:04:09 GMT -5
Expensive yes but I needed (wanted) a track saw and the others on the market were not up to the engineering design and build quality compared to the MT-55. Fine Woodworking is going to do a review of Track Saws this fall and a review by Woodworkers Journal picked the Festool track saw over the Mafell because of price, they didn't point out the feature advantages of the Mafell and the Festool is not cheap by any means. www.woodworkersjournal.com/track-saw-review/I think it comes down to engineering design and high quality manufacturing like a Mercedes sedan vs a Chrysler sedan. Jack |
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bengt
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by bengt on Jul 14, 2015 16:37:22 GMT -5
Just to clarify I am not questioning if the tools are worth the price for what they are but considering the lack of service, availability , relatively short warranty and lack of the ability to try them out or even handle them before buying I find the price high. All one has to go no is all of your good words, which I respect but I would not buy a car sight unseen or without a test drive. I am not suggesting Mafell lower its prices, although this would be nice, but I am suggesting they offer a longer warranty, more distributors, ie better service and availability or commitment to the USA market. just my 2 cents and yes I do not have to buy and I understand the relative price of things.
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Post by holmz on Jul 14, 2015 16:45:04 GMT -5
Just to clarify I am not questioning if the tools are worth the price for what they are but considering the lack of service, availability , relatively short warranty and lack of the ability to try them out or even handle them before buying I find the price high. All one has to go no is all of your good words, which I respect but I would not buy a car sight unseen or without a test drive. I am not suggesting Mafell lower its prices, although this would be nice, but I am suggesting they offer a longer warranty, more distributors, ie better service and availability or commitment to the USA market. just my 2 cents and yes I do not have to buy and I understand the relative price of things. I know that they are worth more to me than what I paid for them, or they are worth exactly what I paid for them. The US price is 30% higher, but I do not understand what additional function one gets with the ax'tra cost. The value (for me) is somewhere between the German price and well below the US price, ... I am not suggesting Mafell lower its prices, ... FFS... Don't leave the door open for them to think that they should raise the US prices. If they need more profit then need to move more stock |
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Jul 14, 2015 23:10:44 GMT -5
This is relative to each buyer. It is not uncommon to buy European tools through the web and site unseen or even some large US machines like Northfield without trying first. Sometimes you have to just take a leap of faith. Timberwolf is great and stands behind their products and they can service anything after warranty or help with parts. If you are really concerned or want to try them you could always arrange for a trip to Maine and see then first hand.
The tools I have are game changers for me and provide lots of value beyond price. Ergonomics, power, warranty, cut quality, etc... all go into the value. And, once bought you often forget about the price.
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Post by 7 on Jul 14, 2015 23:37:00 GMT -5
I buy them so apparently I don't think they are overpriced but I am not a typical tool buyer. I think buying high quality consumer goods ends up being less expensive in the long run.
I have had only good service from Timberwolf. In some ways I think the single dealer brings better service in a "the buck stops here" sort of way. It would be nice to see the tools before purchasing.
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Post by victorl on Jan 5, 2016 7:59:26 GMT -5
I'm huge fan of high quality tools. I believe that Mafell is great tool, but price is very high, service... who heard about Mafell's service in the USA? Distribution, spare parts, accessories availability? Looks like Mafell is not interested to sell these tools in the US. This situation reminds me situation with Festool. Ages ago there was single distributor of Festool - Hafelle. Prices were high, nobody heard about Festo. Then Festool dropped prices significantly. I have their catalog from 2001. ES-125 sander had price tag $215 then! (Newer model costs $195 now). Prices were cut by 1/3 (down to $145 in 2004). They were much lower then in Europe. Festool started to build their distributor's network. The result? Prices are the same as in Europe now(European prices includes 20%VAT), sales are growing. Everybody knows about Festool, many people own and use it. I know that I can get any part or accessory within one week in worse case scenario. Tool can be fixed within few days. I'm comfortable with that. I want to buy Mafell, but I believe that Mafell should do the same what Festool did 12 years ago.
It's not Mercedes vs. Chrysler. It's Mercedes vs. BMW. But one manufacturer offers better price, better customer experience, better warranty, and better support. I want to see Mafell in the US, I want Mafell's tools. But Mafell should hear my voice too.
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Post by reflector on Jan 5, 2016 22:30:43 GMT -5
While I think its fairly uncompetitive that Mafell distributes through a single dealer, I'm fine with Timberwolf Tools as a distributor from my experience. The US prices I don't find reasonable compared to the EU prices and that's even compared to the 110V versions from the UK.
In honesty if the US prices were a little closer to the European prices and had the same warranty backing duration I think the chances of me making a few more orders sooner would be significantly higher. Just an expense-to-value ratio thing for me. I'm fully aware these are amazing tools and I consider them worth the European prices if not a bit more but the US prices are a serious consideration. In the sense that I'd be more willing to spend even more than before.
My biggest concern is related to a story from the automated metalworking machinery world where a machine company dropped distributor and directly imported themselves while having another distributor provide after sales support. It worked out with the prices dropping by 3-4x and buyers of the machinery actually appreciated the support. The end users aren't necessarily sole proprietorships and some of then owned fleets of these machines in the seven to eight figure range and from what I understand they increased their orders shortly afterwards. I'm not saying this is the same or even a similar case but I am somewhat concerned.
And some final thoughts:
KSS80 220V Germany: ~ 1050Euros (About 1075USD)
KSS80 110V UK: ~ 1050GBP (About 1550USD)
KSS80 110V US: ~ 1736USD
A bit of a opportunity cost there: If I was paying the German price on the KSS80 then I would have significantly less hesitance for buying the P1cc even at the US prices. If that P1cc was going for the European prices then I think that the KSS80 would of appeared in my order list already even if it added up to more than the total of the US prices of the MT55cc and P1cc. Just some personal opinions here.
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Post by toomanytoys on Jan 5, 2016 23:30:30 GMT -5
There are a few discussions we've had over USA pricing and I know I sure don't understand the situation. I have been one of the people who have imported what I needed due to cost and availability despite earlier in-country purchases. As great as I found the Mafell products this winter I've purchased what could have been Mafell but ended up from another manufacturer as I just did not want to pay the price premium, despite my belief it won't be as good. Timberwolf has its price structure, Mafell it appears doesn't care or prefers a consumer in its native country. While we may get our frustrations out, it sure won't be addressed from discussions on this forum.
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Post by charley1968 on Jan 6, 2016 12:13:13 GMT -5
reflector: The price for Germany you state is even included VAT,20%. Why don't you guys import from Germany?
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