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Post by Red on Jun 9, 2015 0:29:21 GMT -5
I realize that a machinist could probably put something like this together
without too much trouble, but what about a wooden version? Thoughts?
Something like this would certainly come in handy when working on the
ends of larger timbers, aye?
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Post by holmz on Jun 9, 2015 5:30:32 GMT -5
I realize that a machinist could probably put something like this together
without too much trouble, but what about a wooden version? Thoughts?
Something like this would certainly come in handy when working on the
ends of larger timbers, aye?
Check out prazi beam saw. The Bosch GKS 65 looks like a 220v version that goes on a Bosch rail. You then have a rails am tilting. www.praziusa.com/beamcutter.html |
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Post by jalvis on Jun 9, 2015 11:25:53 GMT -5
Who makes that?
That unit is nicer then a Prazi saw. Like how the Stihl saw is electric.
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Post by Red on Jun 9, 2015 14:21:44 GMT -5
I don't believe in brand warfare, Holmz, so I'll simply say "been there, done that" about the first saw.
As for the second, we already own the KSS 80 Ec / 370. Would there be any advantages to the saw you mentioned?
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Post by Red on Jun 9, 2015 14:27:24 GMT -5
Who makes that? That unit is nicer then a Prazi saw. Like how the Stihl saw is electric.
I've been in touch with the original designer, JAlvis, and he no longer sells it.
It is very very "sweet," however ... That's why I'm interested in giving -- at least one -- a go. |
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Post by holmz on Jun 9, 2015 15:47:18 GMT -5
I don't believe in brand warfare, Holmz, so I'll simply say "been there, done that" about the first saw.
As for the second, we already own the KSS 80 Ec / 370. Would there be any advantages to the saw you mentioned? The more I look at it... the nicer that base looks. It always seems like these chain saw wielders show up in "Off Grid" videos where they are using old files as planing blades in some post apocalyptic inspired scenario where everything modern or electric is verboten. The KSS 80 or 370 look great, and I think one for bigger stuff would compliment the MT-55 nicely. I just do not think I need one at the moment, and dedicating one for Prazi seems a but rich, so I was looking at the Bosch. (Because it fits a Mafell rail) My brand warfare was that I cannot afford a $5000 Mafell beam saw for a limited play session, but the Prazi at 1/10 the cost I would feel OK trying out. Alvis/Red - "what was the been there done that" how bad was it and why should I avoid it? Fundamentally the Prazi and a Stihl are the same so it is all in the base and the motor, hence why I was looking at the Bosch for the saw. I would be in for one if you could get the fellow to run a batch. |
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Post by Red on Jun 9, 2015 17:07:16 GMT -5
 10-4 on the 5000, Holmz! I'm with you on that one, brother ... The ZSX "Twin" Ec (photo above) is supposed to be the best thing since the bread slicer, but my modest hands have never touched one ... which is why you saw the photo in the original post. If I locked myself into my buddy's full machine shop, we could probably create a prototype, but I'm thinking that I might fashion a wood-steel-aluminum hybrid prototype first. $5000 USD is a nice large figure to budget against, aye?
The first saw you mentioned in your first reply is simply too unstable. As you'll learn, Holmz, square rule joinery is based on the "ideal" timber. The closer to square you are -- even on the ends -- the better the chances are that you'll end up with square/tight joints.
The reason we own a huge 16-5/16" circular beam saw is because, once again, the "ideal" timber is square on all six sides -- and a single end cut gives you a much better shot at a square end. I know pro's who've used a fence like the one shown in the original post -- and the reviews are excellent.
By the way, once you've milled a timber out of a saw log, the last thing you want to think about is wasted end cuts. |
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Post by holmz on Jun 10, 2015 5:31:15 GMT -5
10-4
...
The first saw you mentioned in your first reply is simply too unstable.
...
So is the big 16" saw on a rail? I so not understand how a Bosch saw on a rail would be unstable unless you are not on a rail and using saws with bigger bases instead??? |
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Post by Red on Jun 10, 2015 12:47:01 GMT -5
The quote just above this text was my answer to the question you posted (shown in the Holmz quote above).
As for the second saw you mentioned -- the track-type saw -- I'm thinking that our KSS 80 Ec should do the do in that regard.
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Post by holmz on Jun 10, 2015 15:43:32 GMT -5
All I want if a factual reason "why it didn't work?"
Was the Bosch saw on the Bosch rail unstable?
or the motor/spindle in the frame?
Or was it the Prazi on the Bosch>
And a Prazi would not be any better in a Mafell saw?
So I don't know what part of it is flawed idea, nor why.
(Takes apple from Mrs)
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Post by Red on Jun 10, 2015 21:11:46 GMT -5
Other than Mafell, I'm not real big on using other power tool brand names on the MUF, Holmz. As this isn't a forum for timber frame tools, on the other hand, I'll write about those tools all day long ... that's one of the reasons I spend some spare time here.
In your original post to this thread, you mentioned two brands: First, you mentioned Prazi and, second, you mentioned Bosch.
As I've never seen a Prazi bar on anything other than a worm gear saw, I'm pretty sure that it won't mount to a track (unless I missed a big-time memo from Prazi). As I recall, the Bosch circular saw you linked me to rode on their Bosch/Mafell track. I'm sure that it's very nice, but we already invested in a Mafell KSS 80 Ec. It, too, can ride on a Bosch/Mafell track, so there you go ...
Having written all of that, I've never used the Bosch saw that you linked me to. I have, on the other hand, used a Prazi-equipped worm drive saw several times. In short, the Prazi setup -- IN MY OPINION -- isn't stable enough to be used on framing timbers ... especially timbers that I felled and milled with my own equipment. The "ideal timber," as I mentioned before, is square on all six sides (or as close to it as possible). When it comes to end cuts, I want the best tool that I can afford; hence, the idea in the original post.
Take another look at the base on the ZSX "Twin" Ec ... does it look familiar? It looks a lot like the base attached to the Stihl saw in the original post. It looks nothing like the small stamped bases on the Prazi-equipped saws I've used ... and bases are a big deal when it comes to TF ... We even had a custom-made base added to our 16-5/16" monster beam saw to improve the stability of its cut.
Put another way ... I'm still searching for the "ideal" beam saw in my pursuit of the "ideal" timber. 
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Post by holmz on Jun 11, 2015 6:59:19 GMT -5
Other than Mafell, I'm not real big on using other power tool brand names on the MUF, Holmz. As this isn't a forum for timber frame tools, on the other hand, I'll write about those tools all day long ... that's one of the reasons I spend some spare time here.
In your original post to this thread, you mentioned two brands: First, you mentioned Prazi and, second, you mentioned Bosch.
As I've never seen a Prazi bar on anything other than a worm gear saw, I'm pretty sure that it won't mount to a track (unless I missed a big-time memo from Prazi). As I recall, the Bosch circular saw you linked me to rode on their Bosch/Mafell track. I'm sure that it's very nice, but we already invested in a Mafell KSS 80 Ec. It, too, can ride on a Bosch/Mafell track, so there you go ...
Having written all of that, I've never used the Bosch saw that you linked me to. I have, on the other hand, used a Prazi-equipped worm drive saw several times. In short, the Prazi setup -- IN MY OPINION -- isn't stable enough to be used on framing timbers ... especially timbers that I felled and milled with my own equipment. The "ideal timber," as I mentioned before, is square on all six sides (or as close to it as possible). When it comes to end cuts, I want the best tool that I can afford; hence, the idea in the original post.
Take another look at the base on the ZSX "Twin" Ec ... does it look familiar? It looks a lot like the base attached to the Stihl saw in the original post. It looks nothing like the small stamped bases on the Prazi-equipped saws I've used ... and bases are a big deal when it comes to TF ... We even had a custom-made base added to our 16-5/16" monster beam saw to improve the stability of its cut.
Put another way ... I'm still searching for the "ideal" beam saw in my pursuit of the "ideal" timber. Prazi do make a version for the worm drive and also a version non-worm drive. Hence they may a version that will bolt to a Mafell or a Bosch 7-1/4" saw. So if that skil based one is not being made anymore, then that is what leads me to the chin scratching... as a poor-man's Mafell. |
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Post by Red on Jun 12, 2015 22:18:44 GMT -5
As I mentioned before, Mr. Holmz, it's all about the base. The base on our 16-5/16" circular saw -- a saw specifically designed for cutting timbers -- wasn't big enough to keep it stable, so we had a much bigger custom-made base fabricated for the saw. The base on the fence pictured in the original post to this thread is quite large, and so is the one shown in the photo of the Mafell ZSX "Twin" Ec (Post 6).
I could be wrong, but I've never seen a base mounted to a "regular" circular saw that would keep a bar -- like the one mounted to a Prazi or the ZSX -- stable enough for timber framing ... in my humble opinion.
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Post by holmz on Jun 12, 2015 22:39:50 GMT -5
As I mentioned before, Mr. Holmz, it's all about the base. The base on our 16-5/16" circular saw -- a saw specifically designed for cutting timbers -- wasn't big enough to keep it stable, so we had a much bigger custom-made base fabricated for the saw. The base on the fence pictured in the original post to this thread is quite large, and so is the one shown in the photo of the Mafell ZSX "Twin" Ec (Post 6).
I could be wrong, but I've never seen a base mounted to a "regular" circular saw that would keep a bar -- like the one mounted to a Prazi or the ZSX -- stable enough for timber framing ... in my humble opinion. Thanks Red (Much appreciated) - I am with you now. Maybe the rail could aid in stabilising the base? Or maybe the rail could be modified on the Left Hand Side (LHS) with an extension to make it wider? Measuring my Bosch rail it is 5.5" (140-mm) wide... and the MT55 overhangs it by a centimetre or so. So that only way to do that would be to either make a wider rail or weld something to the rail. The welding seems flawed as the rail would warp, and the anodising would need to be ground off. However I could envision a heavy duty steel rail with the track. So that would be starting with an 8-mm piece of steel and then machining off the 3-mm everywhere except for the 1/8" high piece goes that the saw index on. I am not sure if it is worth it... Unless there were a few. The other option would be to put the whole Bosch rail into a wider steel base, but that then raises the splinter strip and creates a parallax error source which one would need to account for. But maybe the cut could first be scored with an MT55 and then cut with the Prazi if the Prazi were spaced out so that its LHS was at the same position as the MT-55. Since I do not need to do this anytime soon I will probably just do a timber framed house model and if I end up doing a house maybe I'll spring for the $ Mafell job, or use a Makita or Hitachi option, or... <¿Scratching the Chin?> |
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Post by Red on Jun 16, 2015 1:21:38 GMT -5
Have you changed your mind about learning the TF craft, Holmz?
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