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Post by jalvis on Mar 17, 2015 22:23:06 GMT -5
Used the DD40 to apply the solid wood edge on some laminate counters. Also used it to add 12 inches to the particle board to make 9 feet. Just used tape for clamping. Was planning on pocket screwing the edge but forgot the kit so went with what was in the trailer. Super fast! Once the Counters were laminated and installed the MT55 cut the sink hole dust and chip free.    |
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jimh
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Post by jimh on May 6, 2015 9:39:47 GMT -5
For those who may not know...longer lengths of particle board for countertops are available for purchase. I have a local place that sells it in 10', 12', 16', and 20'. They are much narrower as 3' at think. It has been a while since I purchased some so my lengths might be off. Same with the width.
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Post by jalvis on May 7, 2015 12:33:08 GMT -5
I've heard that some suppliers have different lengths. My suppliers sale un-faced particle in two lengths 8' and 10' and 4' wide only. I dont build many laminate counters which is good. Laminate is rather time consuming and the price of laminate is much higher then one would expect. Its getting priced out with lower cost solid surface.
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jimh
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Post by jimh on May 8, 2015 19:02:47 GMT -5
Agree with you that laminate has all but been eclipsed and its not the best looking product other than for durability and resistance to damage. I did make several countertops on a job a did that had 8 different countertops of knee wall edges and it worked for that product. All of them required tight scribing that would have been difficult to get perfect if the was granite or solid surface. Cost would have been prohibitive. I ended up put a chamfer on the edge exposing maple that I used for the edge. Looks very nice and complemented the maple cabinets.
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jacko
Junior Member
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Post by jacko on May 8, 2015 21:43:13 GMT -5
I understand that this is not a Mafell sponsored forum so I will offer my opinion about the DD40 as a joining solution. The dowel joint is by design one that is prone to fail because of the geometry of the glue joint. I won't go into detail here but it is well documented that the grain direction of a joint is important to deal with seasonal movement in wood and the dowel joint is prone to failure due to this fact. The Festool Domino Joiner yields more long grain to long grain glue surface and will be a superior long term joint solution. I love Mafell tools but dowel joinery is one of the wood joints that I find fail consistently over four decades of furniture building.
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Post by lincoln on May 9, 2015 0:01:28 GMT -5
I would never use it to replace a mortice & tenon, for example, in a 'stressful' joint, but for case work (or as we call it down here - carcass work) it is ideal. The precision of the tool makes 'knocking up' cabinet boxes a lot quicker and easier.
If your focus is free standing solid timber fine furniture, then it's probably not going to replace your current methods. If you build built-ins, it's an ideal tool, and highly recommended.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on May 9, 2015 9:31:57 GMT -5
It is also a slick set-up for shelf-pin holes and I think that the larger dowels make for a pretty strong joint. I have both Domino machines and they are excellent for sure. I could see a DD40 rounding out the lot so you can always have the right tool for the application. The LR32 is a little clunky to set-up and the DD40 would be a time saver.
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Post by jalvis on May 9, 2015 10:58:28 GMT -5
I understand that this is not a Mafell sponsored forum so I will offer my opinion about the DD40 as a joining solution. The dowel joint is by design one that is prone to fail because of the geometry of the glue joint. I won't go into detail here but it is well documented that the grain direction of a joint is important to deal with seasonal movement in wood and the dowel joint is prone to failure due to this fact. The Festool Domino Joiner yields more long grain to long grain glue surface and will be a superior long term joint solution. I love Mafell tools but dowel joinery is one of the wood joints that I find fail consistently over four decades of furniture building. So you have been using the Domino for four decades to compare? I didn't even know the domino has been around that long. Dowels(pegs) have been used in construction for thousands of years. Its nothing new. There are many reasons any joint can fail if not sized or installed appropriately. The Domino CAN be a superior joint but it is far from necessary or beneficial in every application. Long grain surface is essential for a strong long lasting joint but what about other materials like plys and particle cores? How much long grain surface is there in particle core or MDF? Every tool has its strong points and benefits. There's no one tool does all. Perhaps thats why I have a shop full of different machines for different applications. The DD40 is one of many tools I use to accomplish the task at hand. |
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jacko
Junior Member
Posts: 95
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Post by jacko on May 9, 2015 12:46:19 GMT -5
I understand that this is not a Mafell sponsored forum so I will offer my opinion about the DD40 as a joining solution. The dowel joint is by design one that is prone to fail because of the geometry of the glue joint. I won't go into detail here but it is well documented that the grain direction of a joint is important to deal with seasonal movement in wood and the dowel joint is prone to failure due to this fact. The Festool Domino Joiner yields more long grain to long grain glue surface and will be a superior long term joint solution. I love Mafell tools but dowel joinery is one of the wood joints that I find fail consistently over four decades of furniture building. So you have been using the Domino for four decades to compare? I didn't even know the domino has been around that long. Dowels(pegs) have been used in construction for thousands of years. Its nothing new. There are many reasons any joint can fail if not sized or installed appropriately. The Domino CAN be a superior joint but it is far from necessary or beneficial in every application. Long grain surface is essential for a strong long lasting joint but what about other materials like plys and particle cores? How much long grain surface is there in particle core or MDF? Every tool has its strong points and benefits. There's no one tool does all. Perhaps thats why I have a shop full of different machines for different applications. The DD40 is one of many tools I use to accomplish the task at hand. Point of clarification; I have been using mortise and tenon joinery for four decades and have been using the Domino joiner since it was introduced to the USA several years ago. I didn't mean for this thread to be a comparison of the Domino vs the DD40 and as far as I can see both are useful machines. My main point is that if you consider the glue interface there is a preferred orientation of wood grain to get the most effective cohesive bond. There is a lot of research in glue joint design and bond effectiveness so it can be argued that the mortise and tenon joint is much more effective than the dowel joint given equal execution of joint making. From what I've seen the DD40 looks like it's a much better built machine than the Domino Joiner and if it was designed to give me slots (for slip tenons) instead of round holes (which would take the same amount of time) I would buy it in an instant. I'm not implying that your work is below any professional standard by using the DD40, I'm just pointing out that in my experience failed dowel joints occur much more frequently than mortise and tenon construction. Both Mafell and Festool seem to be introducing new tools to the marketplace to streamline work. The MT-55cc seems to be a much better build than the Festool offering and I'm suppose that their jigsaw might also be better than the Triton I have been using. But, imagine if Mafell modified their DD40 to make slip tenons with the same build quality that the make with the current machine, they would blow Festool's Domino joiner out of the water. |
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Post by jonathan on May 9, 2015 13:00:27 GMT -5
On the bigger joinery I often use 1x 12mm dowel in one hole and 1x Lamello Invis connector in the other. Haven't been at it for decades, but haven't had any problems yet. |
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Post by jalvis on May 10, 2015 0:07:01 GMT -5
It all comes down to application. I would not want a doweled chair but doweled Kitchen Cabinets will last a lifetime. Sometimes I use nails while other times screws. In the end I prefer to have the option of either.
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Post by fidelfs on Nov 18, 2015 15:08:33 GMT -5
I think the most critical point is the glue used some time ago vs the new glues. I am not professional, but have some antiques from my grandmother (tenon and mortises) and the joints failed.
The new glue is better.
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Post by jalvis on Nov 24, 2015 11:28:24 GMT -5
I think the most critical point is the glue used some time ago vs the new glues. I am not professional, but have some antiques from my grandmother (tenon and mortises) and the joints failed. The new glue is better. Depending on the age of that "antique" furniture the glue could be Hide Glue. With fine furniture and antiques modern glues should never be used but in rare occasions. |
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Post by holmz on Nov 24, 2015 16:38:27 GMT -5
I think the most critical point is the glue used some time ago vs the new glues. I am not professional, but have some antiques from my grandmother (tenon and mortises) and the joints failed. The new glue is better. Depending on the age of that "antique" furniture the glue could be Hide Glue. With fine furniture and antiques modern glues should never be used but in rare occasions. I was told hide glue to make it not show. |
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