dob
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by dob on Feb 24, 2015 22:06:36 GMT -5
i see kss400 is ahead of Festool 55-battery driven saw (this one has brushless motor) only by its rail for angle cuts. To use Festool in this tasks, mark with a pencil has to be made, rail has to positioned along the line, and now cut comes.
Taking kss 400 (CORDED) as an universal saw for construction (house) and furniture too, what would be its limitations in cutting all kind of miters (LENGTH EXCEPTION)
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Post by GhostFist on Feb 24, 2015 22:51:35 GMT -5
I believe it's 60° to the left and 45° to the right using the spring loaded track. max 45° bevel
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Post by 7 on Feb 25, 2015 1:06:20 GMT -5
If I have time tomorrow evening I'll check what length you can get with the different miter angles using the standard KSS track that comes with the saw and the 770 Track. I can say right now that the standard track will get you barely more than most standard (dewalt, makita etc) 12" miter saws at the different angles. The 770 track will increase the length a lot.
Just curious- why did you name the thread "kss 400 failure"? It made me think you owned a KSS 400 and it broke. I must be missing something in the wording.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 25, 2015 2:44:44 GMT -5
I think this person is a clown. I thought thier was a failure with the kss400. I think this person is fascinated by brushless motors and if anything that doesn't is a failure on his eyes. All electric motors have magnets that is what causes them to spin Evan brushless motors. It's just that they are placed on the outside and not next to the ametuure which spins around very slowly causing wear over time
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dob
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by dob on Feb 25, 2015 8:13:05 GMT -5
The head word has been changed. It was my failure. Sorry.
Wrightwoodwork, you obviously do not know much about electric motors, but it is Ok for woodworker. Are you Chinese? Do your google for difference between that two motors. If you live and work in area where you cannot get spare brushes, you will think different way.
It should be that the stock thickness for different angles is (55 mm) x [cos (tilt angle)]
this means 20 degree tilt, max cut depth = 52 mm 30 degree tilt, max cut depth = 48 mm 40 degree tilt, max cut depth = 42 mm 50 degree tilt, max cut depth = 35 mm
but it also depend of a pivot-point position and a little of the blade thickness.
The more I am interesting when cutting miters are - how accurate the saw is with a rail (is there unacceptable play for furniture making) and how stable are angle-stops on rail (does they slips) - when the blade is tilted and locked, is the lock good enough to prevent additional move - is there large vibration when cutting miters - is the saw good enough for construction work and for very accurate cuts for furniture - how accuracy holds over time of use - How it all could compare to Festool cordless saw.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 25, 2015 9:16:57 GMT -5
I am definitely not Chinese I did google it both motors have magnets it's just that they are in different places to each other on the old style bushed mitres the shaft or what ever it is called the magnet is worn be it as it spins causing wear. On a brushless motor it is placed in a different place and when it spins it is not in contact sii doesn't wear the magnets. For an electric motor to spin it needs a positive and negative force to make it spin.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 25, 2015 9:31:18 GMT -5
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Post by mick on Feb 25, 2015 14:12:05 GMT -5
Most of the guys I work with have dewalt 18v gear and 3 of them with the brushless sds drills failed all within a year old all fixed under guarantee and returned within 2 days so good there The answer regarding the failure was the brushes fell out I don't understand any of it
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Feb 25, 2015 14:19:35 GMT -5
That was a good article. For most users am not sure it really makes a huge difference one way or the other.
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dob
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by dob on Feb 28, 2015 20:07:38 GMT -5
please this is not about the motor only, but kss400 Limitations
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Post by 7 on Feb 28, 2015 22:05:40 GMT -5
The head word has been changed. It was my failure. Sorry. Wrightwoodwork, you obviously do not know much about electric motors, but it is Ok for woodworker. Are you Chinese? Do your google for difference between that two motors. If you live and work in area where you cannot get spare brushes, you will think different way. It should be that the stock thickness for different angles is (55 mm) x [cos (tilt angle)] this means 20 degree tilt, max cut depth = 52 mm 30 degree tilt, max cut depth = 48 mm 40 degree tilt, max cut depth = 42 mm 50 degree tilt, max cut depth = 35 mm but it also depend of a pivot-point position and a little of the blade thickness. The more I am interesting when cutting miters are - how accurate the saw is with a rail (is there unacceptable play for furniture making) and how stable are angle-stops on rail (does they slips) - when the blade is tilted and locked, is the lock good enough to prevent additional move - is there large vibration when cutting miters - is the saw good enough for construction work and for very accurate cuts for furniture - how accuracy holds over time of use - How it all could compare to Festool cordless saw. Apparently Chinese people don't know anything about motors . The KSS saws are perfectly accurate. The lock is very tight, just as tight at you want to twist it- Neither my KSS300 or 400 have ever slipped when set on a bevel. I don't experience any vibration, never have noticed any anyway. I do more general construction than furniture but the accuracy is perfect so would work well enough for both uses. Accuracy hasn't changed over time at all. Both of my KSS saws are corded versions & I don't own a cordless Festool saw so I can't make an intelligent comment on that one...not that the rest of what I have written is intelligent either
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Post by toomanytoys on Mar 1, 2015 0:14:57 GMT -5
也许,如果你是中国下一次在写它,你会做的更好 Yěxǔ, rúguǒ nǐ shì zhōngguó xià yīcì zài xiě tā, nǐ huì zuò de gèng hǎo (Maybe if you write it in Chinese next time you'll do better)
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Mar 1, 2015 5:08:56 GMT -5
The limitations of the kss saws is really, the limits of your imagination in the cuts it can do. Accuracy is spot on. On the 400 it can cut bevals plus or minus 60 degrees. I not sure of any mitre saw that can do that for cross cuts. Apart from the likes of a radial arm saws. If cutting at 90 degrees you are able to cut timbers upto 400 mm wide 50 mm thick and thinner timbers wider upto approximately 460mm wide. Then if cutting at 60 degrees you can timbers approximately 200mm wide. If you are working with mainly softwoods then the saw is excellent for out in the field. If working more like in a factory set up then personally I'd invest my money else where. I think you want to do more the offsite construction thing. At the moment houses are basically built out in the field and some are excellent and others not so good. Where the likes of car manufacturers build cars in a factory for a very good reason so that they can guarantee 100% that everyone is the same build quality. Where if they built cars in fields, cars would be like houses some excellent and some not so good. It would help if you gave a specific tasks you want to achieve or do. Also how many homes you want to produce.
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dob
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by dob on Mar 2, 2015 8:59:07 GMT -5
Thanks guys The saw will be used for - two houses, c.1200 sq.ft each, crawl space as a storage, attic with stairs access, lots of miter-cuts - two garages - two garden sheds - outdoor benches - counter top, wooden-top - kitchen cabinet - a shelf - a table - entrance door, 2” thick - indoor doors, French - windows Any tool we need to master. Even I have Bosch miter, table and circular/36V saw, I would like to nearly eliminate them all and to have one saw instead. It has to be accurate, robust, soft and hardwood ready and durable. Portability will be of high value too, and it is why I am looking at Festool also (I already have 3 Festool rails). Note also that Festool is 1200 W with higher efficiency motor, and Mafell is 1100 W. A rail attached to Mafell is highly attractive to me. Is Festool cordless (I need only a basic, have two battery already) good enough for that matter, or I have to go with Mafell. Not an easy answer… and miss-buy will get on very high in this case, for instead of eliminating tools it will add tools, and the projects might extend to unacceptable time and effort.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Mar 2, 2015 15:43:02 GMT -5
OK help answer your question on what saws for each job. Or certainly the saws I would use for the jobs in hand. I will give my reasons as well. Also some of my answers might be a bit a presumptions as to how you are doing the tasks and building method to be used two garages Kss 400 it will be able to do the framing, cut roof if that is what you plan to do. I'm presuming your framing timbers roof timbers will be mainly under 2" thick. At the doorways I would most likely double up a 9*2 on edge and double nailed every 12" approximately. Presuming the opening ain't much bigger than 8'. Obviously use the the size of timbers specified by the architect / structural engineer. If the opening is say 20' then maybe you are looking at glulam beams or some other structural engineered timber components that most like around 90mm I guess and maybe 400mm deep. So with them I would cut using the kss 400 and then flip the beam over for the roof as long as only a roof with gable ends then still the kss 400. If the roof is hipped then I would consider the kss 80 as well. As maybe the compound angle will be more than 45. Then you are looking at likes of the kss80, worm drive ( no experience with them or hand saw) I think in NA you talk about roof as 12 X. Where we talk about roofs as degrees pitch. Truthfully doesn't really matter to much and best keeping to what you understand. On the kss saw the angles go up to 60 degrees. So if you know the roof is 35 degrees pitch, then it a case of setting the adjustable stop at 35 degrees for all your plumb cuts. Then the seat cut will be 55 degrees. If using 12 X once marked out the angle simply set the the saw to the line and adjust the stop. Then the other angle will be the remainder to ad upto 90. For the siding still use the kss 400 or your chop saw that you have. Two garden shed Kss 400 the same process and reasons as before Garden benches Kss400 or the chopsaw no advantage either both just as accurate as each other Counter top Kss400 with the 770mm cross cut track or the TS 55 as you have the festool rails Kitchen cabinets the material is like melamine then either the festool ts55 or mafell mt55 I would personally go for the mt55 as the scoring function guarantees chip free cuts. Also as you have the festool rails it might be worth looking at. Not trying to stay you either way. Also you have to remember I have the mafell rails so that is another reason for myself leaning towards the mt55, plus the easier joining of the rails Shelves Kss400 simple and accurate over a wide width For the table, doors and windows you could use the kss400 for the likes of a single door be ok. As you will be making more than one then making a simple stop system for your chopsaw is very worth while. It removes slight differences that might occur from measuring each piece individually where with a stop once set all are the same as long as you don't batter the stop into next week. Also standardsize the door and window sizes. Makes life easier. If you are making 12 doors all the same height and 2 or 3 different widths. It means that by setting the stops for the stiles. All can be marked out the same and any left or right stile can be paired together and marked out. Then it don't matter if any get mixed up as all are the same. Then for the width again set the stop to correspond size and cut all are required at that size then adjust the stop for other sizes. When making 12 doors it doesn't take 12 times longer than 1 door if do all together unless doing each individually one after another. Which isn't a good use of time management. For myself to make a single door from scratch I would be looking at around a day and for 12 doors around a couple of days or maybe just slightly over. Certainly not 12 days. So by standardise the sizes and using a stop system with your chop saw saves a lot of time Note also that Festool is 1200 W with higher efficiency motor, and Mafell is 1100 W. A rail attached to Mafell is highly attractive to me. Read more: mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/433/kss-400-limitations?page=1#ixzz3TGFHb7t8 For the differences in the motors don't get to hung up on the differences and which is theoretically better. What I have noticed in the past when using the festool that because of the fancy electronics the festool seemed to beep a lot more doesn't liked to be worked as hard I found and slightly under powered. Where the mafell despite being only 1100 watts doesn't suffer from the same stop beep annoyance from the festool I found and it is plenty powerful enough with the appropriate blade. Basically the mafell doesn't feel weaker and the electronic aren't there to be overprotective as on the festool. Not that I'm trying to put you off the festool as well. It is an excellent saw for sheet goods it just seemed slightly under powered or at least that was my experience with the saw and another reason I think some have the the ts75 who work more with hardwood timbers as well. Any questions just ask
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