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Post by erik on Feb 21, 2015 11:23:31 GMT -5
Wow, these responses eclipse the level of inquiry by far; easily a function of an operator's love for the KSS saws and just how willing one is to share that experience with others. But I'm still trying to guess whether you're a homeowner about to engage in renovation or a contractor stepping up your level of work. I think responding to Wrightwoodwork's question about application and location would help dial in explanations for anybody whose skeptical about the KSS saw limitations. There seems to be quite a range of user type and work type on the forum so the more you tell us the better we can assist.
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Post by GhostFist on Feb 21, 2015 11:37:45 GMT -5
Regarding setting stops on a kss saw. A miter saw on it's own has no ability to set stops without an additional fence system. The same can easily be done if you fashion a custom station for your kss. This can be as simple as a traditional miter box or as complicated as your imagination. The benefit to this is not lugging a miter saw on site and the adaptability of a kss saw to do multiple tasks. Repetitive cuts off your miter box/stop set up, fine tuning at point of installation, straight rips on the rail, plunge cuts, free hand cuts, trenching cuts. If I were doing a pile of high end crown I'd probably opt for a traditional miter saw. For a smaller amount of trim and rough carpentry the kss saws are fast to set up but a lot less to carry.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Feb 21, 2015 14:14:53 GMT -5
Very well thought out post, Tom. I agree 100% with your comments. I bet if you had an Erika with the stops that you would not really need a Kapex, unless you do not want to cut crown on the flat.
Those beams look really nice too, by the way.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Feb 21, 2015 14:49:35 GMT -5
Very well thought out post, Tom. I agree 100% with your comments. I bet if you had an Erika with the stops that you would not really need a Kapex, unless you do not want to cut crown on the flat. Those beams look really nice too, by the way. Thank you very much! I'm happy with how they turned out, they just need some 1/2" cove moulding where they meet the ceiling and they'll be completed. I plowed a 3/4" wide x 1/4" deep dado in the sides to accept the bottom piece and glued everything together with Titebond Type 3, should hold up very well over time. Plowing ~100 feet of dado in solid Oak with a router REALLY made me want the MF-26cc!!! I am pining for an Erika! I've been working 6+ days/week (not including office time) since June 2014, but many of my contractor customers are way behind on their payments so right now I'm just focusing on paying the bills, hopefully sometime this Summer folks will get caught up and I can go back to buying tools!
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 21, 2015 17:52:32 GMT -5
I am pining for an Erika! I've been working 6+ days/week (not including office time) since June 2014, but many of my contractor customers are way behind on their payments so right now I'm just focusing on paying the bills, hopefully sometime this Summer folks will get caught up and I can go back to buying tools! Read more: mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/426/kss400-mitter?page=2#ixzz3SQB0zUOaThat's a bit of a shit. That's why I carry on with the sites for now. Then for any private jobs I will now get a deposit for the amount of materials. Unless I have done work previously and I know I will get paid prompt
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Feb 22, 2015 12:13:45 GMT -5
That's a bit of a shit. That's why I carry on with the sites for now. Then for any private jobs I will now get a deposit for the amount of materials. Unless I have done work previously and I know I will get paid prompt LOL, yes, it's certainly not ideal, but these contractors have otherwise been great to work with. I always have them pay for the materials up front, and I've been so busy it really hasn't affected my day to day, just a matter of waiting on some of my larger tool purchases. A few years ago I was chatting with a plumber who was explaining to me how his outstanding accounts were well over $300,000 (he works solo). He was still living well, he figured he could just retire early and live off of the outstanding payments as they trickled in With Summer coming soon my contractor customers should be able to get caught up quickly.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 22, 2015 12:36:32 GMT -5
Sounds like things will all work out in good time. Also it will be nice when the money rolls in.
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Post by jasonkehl on Feb 22, 2015 14:47:16 GMT -5
Help me to understand how an Erika replaces a mitre saw. From the videos and photos it looks like a nice saw but I must be missing something on exactly how it works.
If I have a 16' length of trim and I want to cut a 45 degree angle on the end don't I have to turn the board so that it's 45 to the blade and therefore I have an unsupported board sticking out in the middle of the room? Wouldn't it be much easier and take up less space using a mitre saw?
I know I must be missing something regarding the usability of the Erika...
j
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Feb 22, 2015 15:08:45 GMT -5
Help me to understand how an Erika replaces a mitre saw. From the videos and photos it looks like a nice saw but I must be missing something on exactly how it works. If I have a 16' length of trim and I want to cut a 45 degree angle on the end don't I have to turn the board so that it's 45 to the blade and therefore I have an unsupported board sticking out in the middle of the room? Wouldn't it be much easier and take up less space using a mitre saw? I know I must be missing something regarding the usability of the Erika... j Hi Jason! What I am looking at doing is a hybrid between using my KSS-400 for breaking down longer stock, and an Erika for processing shorts stock. In no way am I proposing that a KSS-400 and/or Erika would replace a good miter saw with extension fences for all applications, but since real estate in my Sprinter is very limited it's nice to be able to leave a tool in the warehouse unless needed. As in your example of processing 16' lengths of "trim", I've already trimmed out several projects just using my KSS-400 to cut all of the casing, base and shoe. Granted, I had to plan ahead when cutting my returns, but these were projects where I didn't have enough room to spin 16' lengths of trim, nor did I have a straight 32' area where I could cut one end of the trim, then feed it to the other side of the miter station to cut the other end. Rather, these were cramped spaces where I would carry the KSS-400 to one end of the lumber pile, cut one end of the trim, then carry the saw to the other end to cut the other end. So, it really depends on what you're looking to do. For standard base, casing and shoe, I'd say that, with some slight work flow adjustments, I can trim out an entire house with a KSS-400. With the addition of an Erika, you can more easily cut your shorter pieces that might be a bit of a challenge with the 400/300. For very small pieces, I feel that the Erika can be a better option than most miter saws. The above being said, short of building a jig for your KSS-400 or KSS-80, or an elaborate Erika setup, I definitely agree that a Miter saw with a good set of wings is still king for crown moulding, and is still a great setup for trim. Ultimately, it's a matter of the type of work you do (a little bit of everything or exclusively millwork), how much room you have in the truck, and what your working conditions are (tons of space to set up and spread out, or a cramped basement where you can't even set up a proper saw station). I hope this helps!
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Post by jasonkehl on Feb 22, 2015 17:17:10 GMT -5
Thanks. I guess I was thinking of other posts I've read where guys are talking of having the Erika replace a mitre saw, something I can't ever see being efficient for projects of any significant size.
I understand your workflow as you explained it. Perhaps my confusion is due mostly to not understanding just how cramped some job sites are. I do a wide variety of work and I always have room for my mitre saw and extension wings, I should count my blessings!
For non-repetative cuts the KSS is a gem for sure., the 80 and 400 have become my most used saws. I built a long table with adjustable stops that allow a KSS to be used for repetitive cuts, but only at 90 degrees. It's not as nice as a mitre saw nor is it easily transported but it can stay outside indefinitely and is convenient for big jobs.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 22, 2015 19:18:09 GMT -5
A lot of it really depends on your work flow and also what you are used too. I've used both the chopsaw and the Erika. Overall I find the erika gives me more options. On the chopsaw it is only slightly easier to swing left or right to make the mitre. That's where it ends as far as I'm concerned. If you need to make rips or scribes, it is then either the portable table saw or hand saw. I feel the erika give me away to do mitres , cross cuts and rips from the one system. Doing all the mitres and cuts on the erika takes just as long. With the cuts I will do all the left or right mitres then as I have the mfa fence and the saw is on wheels I then just swing the saw so the work piece isn't hitting the wall or into the middle of the room. Then make all the cuts for the other side mitre. For the heads I will make a note of how many heads of each size I need. Say 8 at 974mm, 8 at 876mm, 12 at 908mm. With the stop on the 1m fence I can then place it at the relevant place on the fence make the desired number of cuts then slide to the next size and make the next lot of cuts and so on. I don't need to measure each one individually or put a pencil mark on each on. I then know that cuts at that size are all the same for the relevant heads. Then when fitting I will fit the head first then do either left or right leg which I have all pre cut. Then any that need scribed to a wall I csm then go back to the erika and make the rip. Where with just a chopsaw I would then have to use a hand saw and if a lot need doing its a pain doing by hand. Truthfully I would prefer not to do any rips it just at times the designers do not allow for full facings to be fitted at the doors cause of a wall etc. When laying out the runners and door opening I try to avoid it. It's just not always possible
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Post by jasonkehl on Feb 23, 2015 7:10:01 GMT -5
I can see how your method would work, the key is as you illustrate; having good planning and cutting all the lefts at once before turning the entire saw and supports/fence (so as to not take up the enitre room) and cutting all the rights.
I agree, it definitely depends on individual circumstances as to how efficient this would be. I have 2 helpers and often one guy is using the mitre-saw and one on the tablesaw, also getting them to plan well enough to make the Erika efficient for mitres would be tough. If I were working alone and had limited space an Erika could be reasonably efficient.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Feb 25, 2015 1:05:16 GMT -5
DO you have any pics of the table with stops you can share?
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Post by jasonkehl on Feb 25, 2015 8:21:53 GMT -5
I will take some pics today and try to post them this evening.
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Post by jasonkehl on Feb 26, 2015 18:02:38 GMT -5
See the pics for my cutting table. (Sorry the pics are upside down, I don't know how to rotate them in the post) We use it mostly for cutting siding, so it is made of pressure treated wood and gets to live outside most of the time. It is not pretty, but it's functional.
I made it 16' long and about 20" deep. I have it relatively open in design to keep it light and limit the amount of sawdust and snow it collects. I use folding sawhorses for legs.The open aspect also provides good support for a length of siding while still allowing us to make cut outs with a jigsaw.
I used Kreg track and stops. The fence is set so that we just butt the left edge of the KSS 80 track up against it to get accurate repeatable lengths. I tack on a small fence extender so that the table also accommodates the narrow KSS 400 track. The design only works for 90 degree cuts with the stop blocks.
The little nubs of wood with the holes in them are what is left from the days when I used rail dogs and my Festool track saw. It worked well but sliding the material under the track was a bit tedious on a large project.
j
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