dob
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by dob on Feb 17, 2015 17:28:26 GMT -5
Cabinet-making, furniture, framing (house), ... KSS400/36V is universal saw made for accuracy, and so the price is.
Can KSS400/36V replace, say Festool, mitter saw in accuracy. How about to replace and a table saw. NO RUSH WORK IS IN NEED.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 17, 2015 19:01:42 GMT -5
Yes and no is the answer. It really depends on what you are doing the size of the task, how much room you have to work in. For tasks where you are working on scaffolds etc. The kss400 to me wins hands down. It is simply far easier to carry a kss saw up a ladder than a chopsaw plus a stand. Also with the kss saws you can cut straight off the pile. For the likes of cabinet making a chop saw is more suitable or the erika. I have done a house of finishing using the kss400 simply because there was no power near by. It did the job fine. If I had the choice I prefer to take the erika or use a chop saw where for the likes of the facings I can set up a stop system and get repative cuts very easily.
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Post by 7 on Feb 18, 2015 0:10:31 GMT -5
I agree, I would never trim out a whole house with a kss saw. A nice miter saw & stand combo wins easily. I would use a kss saw to case a few doors though and save the set up time.
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Post by thedude306 on Feb 18, 2015 9:23:01 GMT -5
I've been using my KSS400 in the shop as a "miter saw" just to get used to it and to try and learn some of it's capabilities. COULD it replace a miter saw, I suppose it could, but I wouldn't want it too. It's the same for a track saw replacing a table saw. It could, but I wouldn't want to.
There are just too many repetitive cuts that a miter saw does so much easier (not better as I am finding the KSS400 cuts are perfect) but with skinny stock, the track takes some getting used to. Not that it's impossible, or even hard, it's just takes time to make sure everything is flat and square and you have to make sure not to roll the saw on the skinny stock.
On 2x and wider trim, it works much faster.
As far as accuracy, it's as accurate as the user is.
Being able to take the saw to the work instead of the work to the saw is also very nice. But it is taking some time to get used to. I am so used to pulling out the miter saw to cut a piece, that it's taking some time to break that habit.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 18, 2015 12:34:46 GMT -5
Agree with that. Normally I don't take the erika saw with me unless I know I'm going to be doing a lot of repative cuts or a house of finishings. This morning got the tools out and the fences out, bit left the saw on the van until it would be needed after I had loaded the house of the standards pack and the doors. The standards are all just ready to be fixed together. Just a case of marking what side the hinged are to go on then a bit of glue and screw the legs on which already have the hinges on and the the other legs have already being machined for the keepers. Easy stuff. I have all the downstairs lot made up, and I start making up the upstairs lot. The site agent then comes to me and tells me I need to go next door and finish off bits and pieces. Basically 3 sets of facings and 5 walls of skirtings with 6 external mitres and 7 scribes. So not a lot more of a nuisance really considering I didn't do the house. Not that it matters to me I still get paid for it. It's just the principal of it. Now I could of got the Erika out. Decided not to cause for all it was it simply isn't worth it and by the time I've got set up with the saw and cables I would be over 75% done. So not really justified. Now tommorow once I have all the doors on I will set up the erika simply because I will have a load of repetitive cuts and is far easier with the erika. It is nice when you have different saws for different situations and can choose what saw is best for each work sitatutiion
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Post by ohan on Feb 19, 2015 6:43:02 GMT -5
So, as far as tasks go, the KSS saws direct competitor is.. the handheld circular saw?
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Post by thedude306 on Feb 19, 2015 7:55:07 GMT -5
So, as far as tasks go, the KSS saws direct competitor is.. the handheld circular saw? That's too general. I have been doing things with the KSS that I would have never attempted with a regular circ saw. The rail makes it a different tool in my books and hard to compare.
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dob
New Member
Posts: 18
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Post by dob on Feb 19, 2015 13:04:05 GMT -5
So I have to have table saw + miter saw + circular saw. Why then Mafell-KSS400, $$$ sake. Makita e.g. also has rail system for a fraction of $$$ let alone weight.
My point is if one get circular saw (as KSS400) with accuracy of a miter/table saw why both. A little slower is not a problem at all. Portability is important to me. I understand that miter-saw is 12 or 14" blade, but I would leave it to just sometimes need (might be 2% of tasks).
I am trying to be practical and to concentrate on creativity rather than on technicality (= tools++++tools).
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Feb 19, 2015 14:12:41 GMT -5
If you're are looking for one saw that will cover a chopsaw, table saw, track saw, circular saw. The kss saw will cover all of these tasks. I use my kss cordless saw for over 95% of all my sawing tasks. I only use the table saw when I have a lot of repative cuts, where I may want to set stops etc. It is basically to save on having to measure individual lengths. We all have different work practices and set ups for different jobs. It really depends on what kind of work you do and how you operate. What sort of work do you want to do with the saw and in what location
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Post by ohan on Feb 20, 2015 13:20:01 GMT -5
So, as far as tasks go, the KSS saws direct competitor is.. the handheld circular saw? That's too general. I have been doing things with the KSS that I would have never attempted with a regular circ saw. The rail makes it a different tool in my books and hard to compare. Do you still have tasks you do with a circular saw that you can't (or at least don't want to) do with the KSS?
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Post by thedude306 on Feb 20, 2015 13:29:17 GMT -5
That's too general. I have been doing things with the KSS that I would have never attempted with a regular circ saw. The rail makes it a different tool in my books and hard to compare. Do you still have tasks you do with a circular saw that you can't (or at least don't want to) do with the KSS? Nope, it comes off the rail so easily I just use it as a regular circ saw as well. I am really glad I got the KSS400 over just the MT55 as I wouldn't want to use the MT55 as a circ saw. It's balance is just off for me. My only other circ saw I use is my cordless Bosch.
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Post by toomanytoys on Feb 20, 2015 16:42:56 GMT -5
That's the problem I'm having and why I said in another post that maybe I should have gotten the 400 instead of the 55.
Or almost 50 years since I first cut with a circular saw is taking an extended retraining period then one should expect. With six other circular saws it's just too easy to pick up the more familiar ones.
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Post by 7 on Feb 20, 2015 23:10:36 GMT -5
That's too general. I have been doing things with the KSS that I would have never attempted with a regular circ saw. The rail makes it a different tool in my books and hard to compare. Do you still have tasks you do with a circular saw that you can't (or at least don't want to) do with the KSS? I still use a worm drive circular saw for cutting the triangles out of stair stringers. I am so used to the worm drives with the blade on the left side that I would have a hard time doing certain tasks like stringers with any other saw. I bet it would be pretty fast & accurate to set the KSS400 track knobs to the angle of the cut out then cut the stringers with the track attached though. If I was just learning today to cut stringers this may even be the preferred way of doing it but the way it stands now is I am very efficient with the worm drive for this task.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Feb 20, 2015 23:24:54 GMT -5
I love my 80 and use it for lots of stuff, but if you need repetitive cuts then a stop system is much faster and not easily set up with the KSS. The KSS system is very versatile as a track saw and the KSS track. It has become my go-to saw and the accessory edge guides allow fast and accurate parallel cuts as well, that rival a table saw for speed and accuracy.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Feb 21, 2015 10:15:49 GMT -5
This concept has been touched on several times in other forums. For instance, it seems like every 6 months or so a thread starts on another forum as to whether a TS55/75 can replace a table saw, or someone griping that for $500+ the saws should also be able to be used to cross cut 2x4's. The KSS saws are a great example of a tool that can handle almost anything you can throw at it, a sort of Jack Of All Trades. However, with that broad versatility, you are also sacrificing specialization. With the integral track, the KSS saws share many capabilities with a miter saw. For quality of cut, I feel the KSS saws can deliver a better cut due to the anti-sprinter strip, and the splinter strip is more accurate than lasers when lining up a cut. That being said, if you are making repetitive cross cuts to an exact length (think cabinet construction), then a miter saw with a fence system or an Erika would be a better choice. Also, without a jig, a miter saw will be easier to use to cut crown moulding. On the tracks, a KSS saw overlaps nicely with traditional plunge cutting "track saws", and replaces a table saw for breaking down sheet goods. That being said, fully shrouded plunge cut saws will get better dust collection and are generally easier to use when cutting sheet goods. Free hand, the KSS saws share full functionality with traditional circular saws. If anything, on the motor side my KSS-400 doesn't have quite as good a sight line as a Makita 5007, but it features a riving knife (otherwise unheard of for North American circular saws) and dust collection. An example of how versatile a KSS saws is as follows: Last week I was hired to build a four member box beam ceiling in a 12'x14' 1908 home in Minneapolis for a contractor friend who bought the house. He supplied me with S2 Oak. For starters, I joined two F160 and one F110 track into one long track, and used my KSS-400 to cut a straight edge on each board. Once I had a straight, clean edge established on each board, I switched to the rip fence and ripped all of the boards to approximate widths. There was a 1" crown in the ceiling, so I scribed every board to the ceiling, and used the KSS-400 free-hand to cut the scribes. Finally, I shifted to the integral crosscut track and used it to make the final, precision fitted cross cuts. Without the KSS-400, I would have needed a track saw, a regular circular saw, possibly a table saw, and a miter saw. Ultimately, my preference would be to roll around with my KSS-400 and an Erika 70, that would cover 95%+ of my cutting needs, only bringing my Kapex out when I am building cabinetry and installing crown moulding. This would save wear and tear on my Kapex, and free up space in my van.
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