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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 28, 2015 0:25:19 GMT -5
Well, part of my work flow today involved building a cabinet for some SYS-AZ drawers, which meant drilling a bunch of 5mm/32mm holes. I have another, larger commission I landed to build a large wardrobe, which I used to justify the purchase of a LR32 kit and track (I already own a OF1400 router). Well, today I put the LR32 to work, and was under impressed with its performance. Setting it up is rather cumbersome, particularly for short production runs, I don't like having a router "captured" for that work, and I found drilling the holes to be somewhat tedious. Most importantly, the "arms" that index the track to the edge of a board only have ~110mm of capacity, so any larger offset and you're back to measuring, figuring out offsets, marking and aligning the track with pencil marks. Boo!
This got me thinking about the DD-40P again. To date I've been using a Domino 500 for joinery and have been happy with it, but it occurs to me that the DD-40P overlaps nicely with most (if not all) of the tasks I use my 500 for, plus it sounds like the DD-40 is great for boring lines of holes. If I sell my Domino 500 (mine is the original style with the pins), some accessories, the extra systainer mostly full of Domino tenons (I was thinking of asking ~$950 for the package, which is roughly 20% off), and the barely used LR32 setup ($500, again 20% off), that should be plenty to buy a DD-40P, but not quite enough to buy the Dowel Template and extension.
My question is this: In a pinch, will the fence pins fit in 5mm holes, allowing me to index off the previous set of holes? Granted, this would be a little cumbersome, but at this point it can't be any worse than the LR32 system, and future projects can pay for the Dowel Template.
So: Are the fence pins 5mm in diameter (or smaller)?
If I trade my Domino 500 for the DD-40P, will I miss the 500? Thanks much for any input you gentlemen might have!
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R cash
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by R cash on Jan 28, 2015 0:45:51 GMT -5
Hi Tom i find that my 500 is handy but most of the time I use the 5-30 mm and the four mm it gets used a lot in my shop. I have the Dd40 but don't use it for shelve pins my bench top 13 spindle drill press does only that job. The fence sys for Dd40 is really great being able to put dowels anywhere in same spot over an over again very handy . Did not really answer your ? IMO you need both but what do I know..... ... Have a great day
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Post by GhostFist on Jan 28, 2015 0:54:39 GMT -5
I'll measure pin diameter in the morning and get back to you.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Jan 28, 2015 1:14:24 GMT -5
Hi Tom,
I have been considering one of these as well for the exact reasons you state - the LR32 works, but it is a PITA at times to get it set up correctly and it works better if you have two holy rails or the longer one. I think that the DD40 is more capable. Personally I would not sell the Domino 500 - but in my work 4mm - 10mm tenons are key as well as the larger machine. So, I would probably try to find a way to keep the Domino if I were in your shoes.
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Post by jonathan on Jan 28, 2015 4:35:56 GMT -5
I'm a huge fan of my DD-40P and use it for virtually all of my joinery. Be it with dowels or Lamello's Invis-MX magnetic connectors. In my experience the only thing I haven't been able to join using 2 dowels with my DD-40, is thin pieces approx < 42mm.
For example the stiles in a staircase. Here's a quick google picture of a staircase as an example. You can always do them with 1 dowel or invis mx connectors though.
I can easily join picture frames where the rails and stiles are only 36mm x 18mm with 2 dowels using the additional spacers that click over the index pins. So unless you work with very thin material a lot of the time, the DD40 can completely replace a domino in my opinion. The arguement that the DD40 can't join small pieces is only true when you need to have small stiles in the middle of a rail. For frames themselves the pieces can be as small as 36mm, no problem.
I do think the DD40 comes with a bit of learning curve. Especially with the indexing rail, it takes some time to figure out how it works on your own because there's no documentation. You'll also need both the 800mm rail and the 1600mm extension if you're going to do full height wall cabinets.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 28, 2015 7:52:48 GMT -5
Good morning Gentlemen, thanks for the late-night/early morning responses! R cash: heh-heh, yeah, a drill-drilling drill press assembly would be nice, but as I am primarily a remodeler/field-carpenter, most shop equipment is out for me GhostFist: Look forward to hearing from you regarding pin diameter, thank you! Is it too late to ask what the distance is from the cutter to the pin? (I'm hoping 32mm??) MrToolJunkie: Yeah, in a perfect world I'd hold on to the Domino when I get the DD40. Alas, space in my Sprinter always seems tight, and I only have so much room in my warehouse, so any tools in my stable need to really fight hard to stick around. While I do occasionally use the 4mm Dominos, and occasionally use Dominos in extremely narrow stock, I just don't think I could justify holding on to the 500. Longer term I hope to eventually get a Domino 700, for which I can get the RTS-500 from Seneca Woodworking, which would allow me to use Domino 500 cutters (4mm and 5mm) on the 700. www.senecawoodworking.com/products/rts-500-cutter-adapter-for-festool-df700Jonathan: Yes, I figured there might be a lack of documentation on the indexing rail. Luckily there are a few YouTube videos showing it in use, which should be enough to get me started, after that it'd be a matter of finding the most efficient work flow. I'm very interested in the Lamella Invis-MX fastener, I'd be interested in seeing a thread started on the topic.
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Post by garch on Jan 28, 2015 8:28:50 GMT -5
Over this past weekend I built several wall mounted shop cabinets with the dd40p. Used it for the 5mm pin holes with the dowel template. Works awesome. I wouldn't attempt drilling pin holes without the template. I also believe the spacing from the pin to the first drill is less than 32mm. Would have to verify, but I'm almost certain. If you want to drill pin holes get the template.
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Post by GhostFist on Jan 28, 2015 13:07:07 GMT -5
FYI the pins on the dd40 are 5mm. included with the dd40 is a series of offset pins that can be attached for different registration distances. Offset "A" will give you 32mm spacing on center.
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Post by jonathan on Jan 28, 2015 14:15:53 GMT -5
Tom, I took some pictures of the DD40 pins and distances to the bits and edges. Hope they're useful to you.
Click to enlarge
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 28, 2015 15:08:50 GMT -5
FYI the pins on the dd40 are 5mm. included with the dd40 is a series of offset pins that can be attached for different registration distances. Offset "A" will give you 32mm spacing on center. You guys are the best, thanks much! Of course I plan to eventually get the template system, but with funding being a little stretched at the moment I just want to try to muddle through with just the DD40. I assume the offset "A" is a 5mm post as well??
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Post by GhostFist on Jan 28, 2015 16:03:33 GMT -5
yup got some pics for you too. In the first pic you can see the face of the dd40 with offset "A" attached. Second pic shows a resulting series of holes in a scrap of 2x4 I had. in this case I set the dd40 to 90 degrees and referenced off of the edge. The first holes are plunged without the offset pin. After that, you attach the pin and it simply drops in the last hole. Easy peasy. If you had to drill your holes deeper into the work piece than the dd40 face would allow, you could simply set the angle to flat, and butt the lip of the dd40 to a straightedge, such as a guide rail. The doweling jig will make it easier and faster to make identical pieces, but it's not that hard without. If time is of the essence and you have a lot of cases to drill, the doweling jig and its extension, if needed, will ensure that your components are identical with very little thought or effort put into it. If you have the time to be a bit more careful, and I'm not talking a huge amount of time or effort here, you can still produce professional results.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 28, 2015 21:46:17 GMT -5
That's perfect GhostFist, exactly what I wanted to know!!
Of course, while I'm sure that using the template guide is ideal, in the immediate term it looks like I could get by with the DD40P. Thanks for going to the trouble to look into this and post up the photographs, it's very much appreciated!
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Post by jonathan on Jan 29, 2015 5:04:52 GMT -5
Jonathan: Yes, I figured there might be a lack of documentation on the indexing rail. Luckily there are a few YouTube videos showing it in use, which should be enough to get me started, after that it'd be a matter of finding the most efficient work flow. I'm very interested in the Lamella Invis-MX fastener, I'd be interested in seeing a thread started on the topic. Tom, there's already short thread discussing these fasteners in the lamello forum mafell-users-forum.freeforums.net/thread/201/invis-mx
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Feb 3, 2015 0:34:31 GMT -5
Good thread. I had no idea that Seneca offered the bit that allows all cutters for use with the Domino XL. Hmmmm...I absolutely love the XL and so it has me thinking - should I consider selling it and getting a DD40 too...
Of course the original Domino has three width settings and I actually do use all three of them often, so that could be a limiting factor. Maybe I just opt for the DD40 as a third joinery tool and dump my LR32.
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Post by GhostFist on Feb 3, 2015 5:25:50 GMT -5
Imo the dd40 is much more versatile than the lr32s. Faster and easier to set up as well.
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