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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 3, 2014 0:38:44 GMT -5
OK...I know I have asked this before, but how is the power of the 400? Does it have adequate power to rip 8/4 hardwood ( Beech, Hard and Soft Maple, Walnut, Cherry, oak, etc)? What about beveling? Say shallow 3 -6 degree bevel rips? Would 24 tooth blade work well and leave a decent finish?
Getting ready to pull the trigger on this or the 80. Like them both for different things, but the size and weight of the 400 seems like a real advantage to this saw vs. 80, assuming it could handle this kind of ripping. Now, I am not going to rip this material 8 hours a day...it would be in spurts for a given piece. The 400 seems better suited to some joinery tasks and blades are more readily available.
Also I gave one 1.6 rail. Thinking of just getting one more for 10 foot rips when joined for either saw. Any disadvantages to this or would you go one rail of each size and extra connectors?
Thanks
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Nov 3, 2014 5:15:53 GMT -5
The 400 with the appropriate blade should be fine even at a beval. The only thing I find it really struggles on us if ripping really wet wood. If the wood is dry it copes with it for the occasional use. If doing all day then the 80. The 400 is properly the better starter package then when funds allow gi for the 80. As for rails there is no reason to get a 10 foot rail in fact it's more of nuisance. I think 1.6 is big enough
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Post by garch on Nov 3, 2014 7:43:50 GMT -5
OK...I know I have asked this before, but how is the power of the 400? Does it have adequate power to rip 8/4 hardwood ( Beech, Hard and Soft Maple, Walnut, Cherry, oak, etc)? What about beveling? Say shallow 3 -6 degree bevel rips? Would 24 tooth blade work well and leave a decent finish? Getting ready to pull the trigger on this or the 80. Like them both for different things, but the size and weight of the 400 seems like a real advantage to this saw vs. 80, assuming it could handle this kind of ripping. Now, I am not going to rip this material 8 hours a day...it would be in spurts for a given piece. The 400 seems better suited to some joinery tasks and blades are more readily available. Also I gave one 1.6 rail. Thinking of just getting one more for 10 foot rips when joined for either saw. Any disadvantages to this or would you go one rail of each size and extra connectors? Thanks I would not use my kss 400 to rip 8/4 hardwood such as beech, hard maple, etc. beyond a couple of feet in length. I'm sure it would get the job done, for a while, but may not be quite powerful enough. You would definitely need to use a blade with as few teeth as possible. I hate to put a strain on my tools. To rip the 8/4 hard maple for my Roubo workbench I used my ksp 85Fc and my MKS 130. The ksp 85 Fc has adequate power for hardwoods and would be an appropriate saw for that type of task. I use a 12 tooth blade on the ksp 85 to reduce strain for ripping. The finish is rather rough. Check out the first picture I posted in Garch's Roubo. The kss 400 and ksp 85 or kss 80 are completely different tools used for different tasks. The kss400 is great for sheet goods, and 2x softwood lumber; beyond that the ksp85 or kss80 excel. With that said I would not enjoy using the ksp 85 all day for a task such as ripping down sheet goods, but it would work. For rails I have a bunch of F160's and one F110. For 8 foot rips the combination of one F160 and one F110 work great because there is not much track overhanging. Also the F110 is great for crosscutting sheet goods 2' or so wide such as cabinet carcasses. Hope this info helps you make the right decision. If you need versatility get the kss 80, my first mafell circular saw was the ksp 85 and allowed me to cut whatever was at hand. The 85 is not extremely heavy either, about the weight of a quality 7.25" circular saw.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 4, 2014 0:55:11 GMT -5
Thanks, Aaron and Garch...good info! Garch, that was my concern with the smaller saw over-taxing it. Seems like I need to start with the 80/85 and then add a 400 to round out the functionality at some point. I am not opposed to a larger saw, but I can see how it might be clumsy with certain joinery cuts where a 300 or 400 would excel. But, I have several projects lined up later this fall and over the winter that will require lots of 8/4 so it will get a workout -- first project will be using about 600 board feet of Walnut. So for the lengths of track - since this is not a pivot plunge saw it must not matter as much with overhang. I know with my Festool it is good to have overhang on each end of the cut to allow plunging before moving into the cut.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Nov 4, 2014 19:26:33 GMT -5
For overhang, I still shoot for roughly 10" overhanging on the start side, and preferably 6" on the far end as well. For a KSS80, you may want more like 12+ on the start side.....
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Post by GhostFist on Nov 4, 2014 20:04:33 GMT -5
you still need the overhand, if not more so with this type of saw. You typically have the saw already locked at depth when you start the cut. Not a requirement to plunge into the cut.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 4, 2014 21:49:47 GMT -5
Makes since. I think that I will pick up another 1.6 rail at the same time or the 1.1 and .8 added to my existing 1.6 for a little more room and more flexibility with rail choice. I am 99% percent sure the KSS80 or K85 is the right saw for me at this time. I want to get it by the end of the month in time for my next project. Checked with David today and both are in stock. Only thing not available is the roller edge guide. I am on vacation next week and out of town so need to coordinate shipping to arrive when I get back...something to look forward to after my vacation!
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Post by 7 on Nov 4, 2014 22:48:43 GMT -5
Thanks, Aaron and Garch...good info! Garch, that was my concern with the smaller saw over-taxing it. Seems like I need to start with the 80/85 and then add a 400 to round out the functionality at some point. I am not opposed to a larger saw, but I can see how it might be clumsy with certain joinery cuts where a 300 or 400 would excel. But, I have several projects lined up later this fall and over the winter that will require lots of 8/4 so it will get a workout -- first project will be using about 600 board feet of Walnut. So for the lengths of track - since this is not a pivot plunge saw it must not matter as much with overhang. I know with my Festool it is good to have overhang on each end of the cut to allow plunging before moving into the cut. Just curious what you will be building with the thick walnut?...it's my favorite. I think your choice of the 80 saw makes sense. It always feels bad to be bogging equipment when there is another option that won't struggle at all. For selfish reasons it will be nice to have more information through the forum about an awesome tool that has little exposure now.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 4, 2014 23:01:25 GMT -5
Well to start I have a complete set of Maloof inspired dining chairs and table to build. I will be starting with long lengths of 8/4 in the rough and it is just too much to muscle this over other tools for breaking down. I think that the KSS or K85 will be perfect for this task. Several other projects lined up after that so I will be busy for awhile.
I plan on shooting lots of video of this saw in action. Maybe I will start another thread on the KSS 80 thread since this one is the 400 and we can continue the discussion there.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 5, 2014 0:27:17 GMT -5
Oh and to clarify, it is 300 board feet, not 600! Mistyped the number. Still quite a bit of big heavy timber to process.
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Post by 7 on Nov 5, 2014 21:49:27 GMT -5
I'd love to see pictures of the maloof table & chairs. I'm more of a general contractor type of finish worker...the real fine woodworking projects like that are inspiration to me. I would like to be in the shop more and improve my woodworking skills but the other type of work is what pays my bills for now.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 6, 2014 0:02:36 GMT -5
Well I will try and post some pics and video once I start. Funny, I get inspiration from seeing beautiful construction projects...
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Post by 7 on Nov 6, 2014 23:05:26 GMT -5
I can relate. I like seeing houses during the framing stage the most for some reason. Really I like all carpentry a lot but look forward to a time when I can take my time on some woodworking projects and do some interesting joinery in unique wood projects.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Nov 6, 2014 23:59:55 GMT -5
Yep...and you have some great tool to do it with too! I think that the KSS300 would be a perfect saw for lots of different joinery. I envision all kinds of uses for it.
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Post by 7 on Dec 21, 2014 0:38:07 GMT -5
OK...I know I have asked this before, but how is the power of the 400? Does it have adequate power to rip 8/4 hardwood ( Beech, Hard and Soft Maple, Walnut, Cherry, oak, etc)? What about beveling? Say shallow 3 -6 degree bevel rips? Would 24 tooth blade work well and leave a decent finish? Getting ready to pull the trigger on this or the 80. Like them both for different things, but the size and weight of the 400 seems like a real advantage to this saw vs. 80, assuming it could handle this kind of ripping. Now, I am not going to rip this material 8 hours a day...it would be in spurts for a given piece. The 400 seems better suited to some joinery tasks and blades are more readily available. Also I gave one 1.6 rail. Thinking of just getting one more for 10 foot rips when joined for either saw. Any disadvantages to this or would you go one rail of each size and extra connectors? Thanks For the record- I fully realize you have already purchased the KSS 80 and still think you made the right choice...I am only quoting your original post in this thread because this post I am writing seemed to fit the best here and relate to your original questions. I just spent the day today installing a set of white oak stairs (13 treads & 14 risers). The treads were the solid 1 1/8" with the roundover stair nose. I used the KSS 400 and it was the perfect tool for the job. On the top stair the framer messed up a little bit so unfortunately my only option to stay within code (long explanation) was to lean the tread slightly forward. In order to not have a gap at the back I beveled it at 10 degrees (more than needed but safe & fast) and the saw didn't bog down at all while making the 10 deg bevel through 1 1/8" white oak for 4'. I used the standard F style rail (160) for the back bevel. The cut looked amazing, no tearout whatsoever. I was using a new black tenryu blade, very nice blade, super happy with it. All the risers and treads were at least a small fraction out of square on the sides. The 400 was the perfect tool to just cut the line that I traced from the spreader stair tool. I would just hold the KSS track on the line without adjusting the miter knobs and it worked great & very fast. I definitely bonded with this tool today. I had previously only used my 400 for deck builds with a 14 tooth freud blade. Seemed like a different tool with the high tooth count tenryu blade.
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