|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on May 28, 2014 11:47:44 GMT -5
I picked up these the other day as I want to see if or how easy it is to use the dd40 to do knockdown fixings. I don't expect it being as quick as a boring machine or the lamello clamex, but for cam locks and dowels cost just over £5 from screwfix
|
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on May 28, 2014 11:49:12 GMT -5
|
|
taz
Junior Member
Posts: 67 
|
Post by taz on May 30, 2014 13:40:54 GMT -5
This is one of the reasons I got the dd40g. How will you make the cam holes as they are 15mm. Your dd40p could maybe do them with a 15mm stopped dowel drill bit.
I eagerly wait for you findings and results including videos.
|
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on May 30, 2014 17:17:26 GMT -5
Made a half attempt tonight at doing them. I don't have the proper size bits yet. I need a 15, 7, and a 5 I used the 16 for the 15 and tried the cam dowel in the hole it obviously fit just not as snug they seem to sit fine. I am using an 8 instead of the 7. The only thing is I need to work out an alternative for the 5 to screw the dowels in. Using the template guide looks like it will really help with placement of the fixings. It won't be as fast as the clamex but is a lot cheaper and also at the moment I'm muddling through it. I'm altering the van racks to have them running down the side instead of just at the back and thought it would be a good way to learn how to do them. Unfortunately cmt don't do a 15,7 bits only the 5 so will need to get the mafell just waiting on a price
|
|
|
|
Post by nucone on May 31, 2014 7:29:09 GMT -5
I have also been trying to noodle a way to use the DD40 for the Rastex fittings. I have some but the dowels are screw in for the 5mm holes and due to multiple bit changes are impractical for the DD40. Hettich makes rapid assembly dowels that go into either 8mm or 10mm holes that would be perfect for the DD40 but for me they seem to be one of those NAINA items. This is the datasheet for the Hettich Rapid S dowels that I believe would solve this problem; Hettich Rapid S dowels |
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on May 31, 2014 9:16:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 7, 2014 13:23:01 GMT -5
I've decided against the cam dowels simply as there is to many changing of bits. I have ordered some of the 6mm plastic knapp dowels. Just waiting for them to be delivered, properly will come during next week. If I'm happy with them I might try some of the quick set dowels
|
|
taz
Junior Member
Posts: 67
|
Post by taz on Jun 7, 2014 14:02:51 GMT -5
Using those knapp dowels would mean you can't dismantle your knock down furniture if needed. With the cam fittings you can dismantle if necessary.
|
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 7, 2014 14:48:35 GMT -5
That's true it can work with the right size bits ideally what would be handy if you use either the 6/8 bits for both the male and female parts. Then have a 4mm hole which a cover cap could fit an allen key or push some kind of button which would allow the fitting to disassemble
|
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 9, 2014 18:02:57 GMT -5
Took delivery of the 6mm plastic knapp dowels along with a tube of knapp pu+ glue took about week to come. The glue she's slight gap filling properties. It does not mean you can have a poorly fitting joint. The dowels have little holes in them which the glue expands into then when the glue sets the dowel is firmly fixed. I have done one 90 degree joint and using the glue as well. When making the simple joint it is best to cramp the joint tight. After 30 minutes the joint is solid. The test piece I did tonight rock solid I can't break the joint in my hand will do some more test at the weekend. The other 90 degree joint I have done I haven't used any glue the joint knocks up easily and can still be knocked apart. Then glued at a later date. To make a really solid joint. For proffessioal use seem to work
|
|
|
|
Post by skinee on Jun 15, 2014 18:19:08 GMT -5
mafell produced a systainer set a few years ago that contained knockdown fixings and a jig&bit to drill the 15mm hole for the cam,i imported the set from Germany and subsequently relocated it in a t-loc systainer,it contained dowels,the bit and jig and two types of fixings,namely the removable/knockdown cam&dowel and an un-removable dowel and plastic plug type,in the latter type the head of the dowel expanded the plug, fixing both together permanently,i have never used this latter type so can not comment on how good or otherwise it is,i did use nearly all of the knockdown cam&dowel set in a project but was less than pleased with it,the jig for drilling the cam hole was located using the wooden dowel(as in photos),this was simple and worked well however the supplied bit tended to burn the guide hole in the jig and there was a lot of tearout around the resulting hole,i was working in plywood for that project and I suspect that tearout on melamine faced chipboard would have been worse,i ended up using a rockler bit and jig that I had,i made a simple jig using the same principle of location as on the mafell jig,i can not find the jig at the minute to photograph but it was easy to make,another problem came with screwing in the metal dowels,the head was small and weak and were very tight to screw in(8mm hole),many were ruined as the metal was too weak and the screwdriver cammed out a lot of them,these metal dowels were designed to screw into 8mm holes avoiding the need for different sizes of bits in the duo dowel machine,i later tried to see if other manufacturers made them but could not find any that fitted a 8mm hole,the cam and dowel system also did not have enough force to pull together the project and I ended up having to clamp it and drive screws through,overall the set was a disappointment,mafell must have realised it was not very good as they stopped producing it,below is a link to some photos, here |
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on Jun 15, 2014 19:15:58 GMT -5
Obviously not knock down fixings I got the plastic 6mm knapp dowels I mentioned in a previous post. I have knocked up quick 90 degree corner joint putting knapp pu+ glue into the holes and along the full edge of the joint. I certainly can't break the joint in my hands. I've also tried standing on the joint and it has still not broke the joint. I intend to make some joint samples using different materials like ply mdf, melamine coated chipboard along with different glue types pva,gorilla glue, titebond plus some other glue types like casemite then using a bottle jack and scale try to test to destruction. That's the plan will post results when I do the tests. I know can't take apart bit have joints that are rock solid to me is very valuable as well as joints that can be dismantled
|
|
|
|
Post by wrightwoodwork on Nov 5, 2014 14:51:59 GMT -5
When I was at W14 earlier this year, there was a company called ovvo solutions that have developed a knock down fixing it can be made with cnc machines or a router and guide rail. They have teamed up with hoffmann and mafell. I can't remember the prices. Here is a vid
|
|
taz
Junior Member
Posts: 67
|
Post by taz on Nov 5, 2014 16:00:14 GMT -5
That looks good but that would mean more power tools to make these joints. We need some manufacturer to have a go at a knock down system specifically designed for the dd40 and other dowelling systems so it is more universal and not just limited for use with the dd40.
Aaron, its a shame that old mafell knock down stuff you got was not that good. I prefer making a knock down unit to a rigid one, so I am hoping something compatible with the dd40 is developed sooner rather than later.
Taz
|
|
|
|
Post by nucone on Nov 5, 2014 21:46:34 GMT -5
I attended the IWF several months ago and ran across a product called LockDowel that might be useful with the DD40. Unfortunately, most of their offerings have unique hole sizes not available in 8mm shank bits but, the 10mm Nylon cinch fastener looks like it would work with the DD40 standard bits. They have evaluation kits but I haven't ordered yet. This is a link to their website. www.lockdowel.com/10mm-cinch-fastener.html |
|
