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Post by yetihunter on Mar 14, 2023 16:40:57 GMT -5
I came back to drool over the Mafell drills that may finally come to the states in a month or two and then I come to find nothing but poo poo sad songs about the 12v. :0
The issues you guys are having with the Metabo and Mafell 12v are almost identical to problems myself and a friend had with our Hilti 12v's (nearly identical to Panasonic "Exena L-Series"). Trigger would do nothing, or power would cut and motor would slow down to a stop (no electronic brake). No issues with it starting at max speed. In both cases it was the brushless motor controller. Didn't we have issues with the motor controller on the first or second run of cordless Mafell saws (metabo motor)? Or was that the main control board?
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Post by aas on Mar 15, 2023 0:54:12 GMT -5
My A12 has to go back to be looked at, I will get around to it at some point, but the trigger problem is so annoying it just sits there on a shelf not being used... shame because it is a really comfortable grip, weight and balance are good, and it is the only drill I have an offset head for.
In day to day use I have gone back to my Makita CXT 12v - I have pretty much the whole range and they are very good, but I think this is a forgotten platform, nothing new has been released for years and some of the tools on the platform are absolute junk - specifically circular saw, I am looking at you, who actually designed that thing and thought they had done a good job!
I had been looking at the Hilti, so that is definitely off my list if there are similar issues. Almost impossible to get Panasonic here.
I will probably try out the new Festool CXS-18 at some point.
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Post by henrun on Sept 16, 2023 11:50:29 GMT -5
Update: I sold off my Mafell A12. When the TXS 18 came out I got me one. Nice build, very light and not too shabby. However the trigger problems are there too. Seems like the new generation electronically managed clutch/torque is not as good as one would have hoped. It will suffice for shop work but I think the trigger control is a far cry from the previous generation Festool drills.
At least Hikoki joined the game by adopting Metabo/Mafell Quick change chucks. Finally! Did I treat myself to one? Of course I did! It arrived the day after order and I picked it up today. I have yet to find out if it too suffers from the same (lack of) trigger control. On paper it should be the same as the little powerhouse they released a few years ago so there is hope that the Hikoki might be the best of the bunch. It has the most torque and I have used the model it is based on and it never displayed any quirky behaviour with the trigger.
Good thing is that Festool drill chuck, depth stop chuck and Centrotec chuck fit just fine. I have only toyed with it today, picked it up a few hours ago, but the good thing with the Hikoki is that batteries are fairly cheap, it is about the same size and weight and it has the most torque of the lot.
When it comes to grip they are all similar, I think they are all great for my hands. I haven’t a clear winner there. Perhaps the Mafell grip was the nicest, but Festool and Hikoki are equally nice with or without gloves.
For cost and performance the Hikoki is the overall winner and it is actually a few mm shorter in body depth than the TXS 18 is. Funny seeing the Metabo/Mafell chucks with a Green ring, albeit another hue than the Festool green.
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Post by henrun on Sept 16, 2023 11:55:52 GMT -5
The new Hikoki is the DS18DDQ. Comes in set with four chucks, bitchuck, angle chuck, off center chuck and drill chuck. No extra chucks to buy, all are included. But in traditional Hikoki fashion they DO NOT INCLUDE A BELT CLIP - cheap bastards. But lucky for me I had a spare from before. Also tried the new Hikoki mini blower gun - small, but actually very powerful and quite useful. A colleague has one and I am thinking of snagging one for both shop and on site use. It will see a lot use in the workshop. I would probably carry it around all day between the machines!
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Post by henrun on Sept 16, 2023 12:01:38 GMT -5
On the CXS 18: I got it at the same time as the TXS. I like it better than the TXS so it is a keeper. I did try out the new CXS 12 - which is something I have been pining for the last decade (!) but honestly, it did not feel that great in hand so I will take a long hard look at it again once it hits the shelves. I did not preorder one.
I am still thinking that the new CXS 12 would be great for the very same reason as the older CXS. If I knew it was about to surface I would not have bothered with the CXS 18 and possibly not the TXS 18. But in all fairness the CXS 18 is small enough and works well enough I am not sure I will bother with the CXS 12.
As it stands right now I am on the verge of dropping the whole Festool 18V platform since I have everything covered with the Hikoki drill. It would leave the door open for the CXS 12 as a stand alone unit.
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Post by aas on Sept 16, 2023 12:36:58 GMT -5
I still have the A12, it still has trigger problems, it's not really used. Mafell said I should send it back as there may be a problem with it, but I would prefer they put their hands up and said it's a problem (as with the Metabo it's based on).
I pre-ordered the CXS18 and really like it - no trigger problems for me. This and the C18 are probably my most used drills now - I got rid of the old CXS. I have been eyeing up the CXS12, it seems really light which appeals.
I'll have a look at the Hikoki, thanks for the heads up.
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Post by henrun on Oct 20, 2023 2:42:57 GMT -5
aas and others:
I did end up with the CXS 12 for the workshop as a stand alone unit. My reason is that I have so many countersinks and Centrotec stuff / Forstnerdrills so I figured it would be worth it. I don’t mind that there is (currently) no system to build up. I liked the old CXS as a stand alone unit and I like the new one.
The caveats: I honestly don’t feel a 100% love for the new CXS 12. It is better than the old in all but one aspect: they now made the grip uncomfortable to use if you would like to occasionally use the index finger for the trigger.
I have small hands and even for me the grip is awkward compared to the old CXS. Since I have the old CXS at home I brought the CXS 12 since I was doing some assembly work at home and going between them was ”strange” but familiar. I gripped the CXS and use the index finger and then switch to the CXS 12 and can’t, so I use the middle finger.
It is not such a big deal for most people but if you have larger hands than me (and 60% probably do) then the CXS 12 grip might be an issue.
The CXS 18 is so small and light with the new 3Ah battery I honestly feel like I would have been better off with the CXS 18 over the CXS 12. The size difference is there but the weight difference is small and all in all I think the CXS 18 is a more allround drill/driver.
On the negative side I find the electronic clutch a bit erratic when driving mid sized screws and I think the new CXS/TXS in both 12/18V are not as precise as the older counterparts T12/C12 or C18/T18 when it comes to precision driving of screws. The creeping in for a flush with the surface mount is not as good as the older models.
The Hikoki and the CXS 12 makes for a nice pairing. I would say that a CXS/TXS18 and a CXS12 makes for nice pairing as well since they share chargers and the CXS 12 batt’s are so small they don’t occupy too much space in a shared systainer. With the Hikoki and CXS12 pairing I still need that way oversized TCL-6 charger for the small batteries. I wish they made a smaller charger for the CXS12, like they did with the old one.
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Post by aas on Oct 21, 2023 23:16:15 GMT -5
I gave up on the idea of getting the CXS12 - using the C18 and CXS18 as a combo and pretty happy with them.
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Mafell A12
Oct 25, 2023 13:38:09 GMT -5
via mobile
aas likes this
Post by henrun on Oct 25, 2023 13:38:09 GMT -5
I gave up on the idea of getting the CXS12 - using the C18 and CXS18 as a combo and pretty happy with them. After all these years waiting for one, I am slightly underwhelmed. C18 and CXS18 is a great combo.
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