hrose
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by hrose on Oct 11, 2020 22:10:41 GMT -5
Hi Mafell enthusiasts! I'm a brand new member here. This is my very first post in this forum. I'm an absolute newbie with zero experience with the real woodworking before. But my plan is to start to learn woodworking now so that I can work on my home improvement projects and build some furniture. I always dream about working with woods, but the opportunity never presented itself until now since I'll be moving in to my brand new home in December after living in an apartment forever.
I become interested in investing in Mafell tools due to its reputation on being accurate and durable. I would admit that I was originally drawn to Festool system because of its dust management reputation. It's my wife's ultimatum that if she would allow me to set up a small woodworking shop in our new home's tiny garage, it has to be relatively dust-free. That's why when I first started, I gravitated toward building my workshop around the Festool ecosystem. However, everything changed the moment I came across a YouTube video that features the MT55cc. Now, Mafell becomes my first choice for many tools, under one condition, if I can afford them.
The first Mafell tool I'm ordering now is the MT55cc (corded). I don't plan to have a table saw because my garage is very very small, that's why I chose to go with track saw in the first place. To save some money, I got all the guide rails and guide rail accessories from Bosch.
Originally, I planned to get the P1cc jigsaw next since most of the YouTube videos I watched said that jigsaw is a must for a beginner since it's very versatile, or something along that line. However, I knew that one of the first things I plan to build in my new home is the walk-in closet cabinets for my wife (yeah, I know. I'm an ambitious nube). My wife said that she needed some results to see if it's worthwhile to let me buy a fancy brand rather those cheaper brands. So, I need to provide her with a solid proof. Besides the walk-in closet, I also need to build a lot of shelves, both the floating ones and the ones with pin holes. So, I did some research on the tools I need for those cabinets and shelves and realized that I would need to deal with a lot of joints. That's when I started to look at the DDF 40. Knowing that I would start with building a lot of cabinets and shelves, I'm not sure how useful the P1cc would be for me at the beginning. At this point I haven't invested in any dowel jigs or LR32 system. But I do have a Bosch router (2.3 HP) with both fixed and plunge bases. Now, I'm having a dilemma. Given my situation, do I get the P1cc or the DDF40 now?
Ideally, I would get both, but my budget only allows either one, but not both. Currently, both DDF40 and P1cc are at a discounted rate in the U.S. The DDF40's price is twice of the price of P1cc (at the discounted rate). If I decide to go with the DDF40 now, I would have to do things without a jigsaw for while. I would also have to squeeze my budget by delaying some other buying. And when I want to get the P1cc later, it would be at a significantly higher price after the promotion ends. The opposite is also true. If I go with the P1cc now, I would have to get the DDF40 later at a much higher price. However, if I were to go with the P1cc now, I could get something like the Dowelmax for now. I know it's not as convenient as the DDF 40, but at least I would have both a jigsaw and I can build cabinets using dowels.
So, that's my situation. What do you guys think? Do I need a jigsaw or a duo dowel system more now? Please advise. Thank you guys!
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Post by holmz on Oct 12, 2020 2:51:32 GMT -5
If you do sheet goods, and things like IKEA put together stuff, then a lamello Zeta may be better than a DD40.
If it is pieces of wood, then a DD40 may make more sense, or a Kreg jig?
You probably need the MT55 and a sander... then it is either lamello Zeta, dd40, or Kreg stuff. If you cuts are straight, then a p1cc is not as useful.
If you had examples of things like sketches, then it would be easier to opine.
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hrose
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by hrose on Oct 12, 2020 9:25:03 GMT -5
Hi holmz! Thanks for your response. I can see why the Lamello Zeta (P2?) would be an attractive choice. To be honest, after watching a Peter Millard's YouTube video in which he compared Festool DF500, Mafell DDF40, and Lamello Zeta P2 -->
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I was almost convinced, too. However, that's not an option due to my budget limitation. The price of the Lamello Zeta P2 alone would allow me to get both DDF40 and P1cc. Also, among all 3 choices above, the price of Lamello's consumable (Tenso & Clamax connectors) is the highest compared to both dominos and dowels. If I were to go commercial, which I might down the road, the Lamello is, perhaps, the best investment since it provides the best options as far as knock-down goes.
Anyway, based on your comment, I figured that at the beginning, I probably wouldn't have a lot of circles or any curve cuttings to do just yet. But is a jigsaw main function simply boiled down to only non-straight cutting? The reason why I wanted to get the P1cc in the first place was that I could imagine a couple of scenarios where I need to perform some relatively small cuts where the MT55cc would be too big to do, and of course all the curve cuts.
But if I were to be perfectly honest here, despite how many YouTube videos telling me to get a jigsaw as one of the first tools as a beginner, I still felt like there is a big overlap between what a jigsaw can do and what a track saw can when it comes to straight cuttings. Of course, when it comes to non-straight cuttings, there's no comparison here. I guess the main reason why most videos on YouTube keep telling beginners to get a jigsaw is its relatively low price. Most YouTube videos that I referred to use the "less than or around a $100 price point" when recommending a jigsaw to beginners. At that price point, there's no argument. But at the P1cc's price point, well, that's where priorities come in and that's why I started to question my original plan.
Unfortunately, I don't have any sketches or drawings to share yet. I plan to learn how to use Fusion 360 to create one soon.
Thanks.
Edited: Sorry, I totally forgot to respond to your Kreg suggestion when I first replied.
I understood the appeal of the simplicity and the associated costs of the pocket hole joinery, just in theory, since I'm a nube after all. However, it appears to me that it's not very convenient to make some adjustments during the "dry" assemble. I assume that, with dowel, domino, or tenso/clamax connectors, I would have the flexibility of taking everything apart by hand and changing things if necessary after the initial "dry" assemble. I could see what my final product would look like without the glue in the picture. These 3 joinery systems provide me with the half-way point in the process while the pocket hole system doesn't. For pocket hole, it's either "almost all" or nothing. Making any adjustments in pocket hole joinery involves a lot of screwings and unscrewings, which are not as convenient compared to simply using bare hand and maybe a mallet. But I do realize that once the glue is added, all type of joineries are equally painful to make any changes. That's why I didn't consider the Kreg option in the first place. But thanks for the suggestion anyway.
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Post by matchesder on Oct 12, 2020 9:46:17 GMT -5
If you already have a track saw and a router I recommend to go for the jointer. DDF is also good for series holes if you’re wife likes to change things around a lot.
I wouldn’t bother with any kind of dowel jig if I had the option for a dd.
A high quality jigsaw is a nice to have in my opinion. The most you want to do is better done with the track saw or the router anyway. The cuts depend mostly on the skill of the user, even with the P1cc. Much more than with a track saw.
Get a cheap used one for 20 bugs or so, in case you cannot do the task without a jigsaw.
My first quality tools were a router and a jigsaw. About 6 years ago. I learned the limitations of the jigsaw, the next purchase was the track saw. Since then, I had very few uses of the jigsaw.
I don’t know about the US, but in Germany Mafell has its work horses practically in every discount. You most likely find the P1, MT55 and Erika every time (subjective impression)
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hrose
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by hrose on Oct 12, 2020 14:18:32 GMT -5
Hi matchesder! Thanks for your comment. I'm afraid that I'm leaning more and more toward the direction that suggested although it would cause me more, which in turn forces me to compromise on other ends. Unfortunately, there're very limited ways to get my hands on any Mafell tools here in the U.S. To the best of my knowledge, Timberwolf Tools is the only authorized reseller here. Fortunately, all my interactions (inquiries) with them have been more than pleasant.
Your suggestion on getting a cheap jigsaw just in case makes a lot of sense. If I ever need one before I can save up enough for the P1cc, I would probably get the Wen 6.6 Amp jigsaw for $40 from Home Depot. It's the cheapest one I could find with a dust collector port, which to be honest, I wouldn't put too much hope in its dust collection performance.
Thanks again!
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Post by bicycleclip on Oct 12, 2020 14:22:11 GMT -5
Out of all my Mafell kit, the jigsaw is the least used. I don’t enjoy using it.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised my DD40p recently (forerunner of the DDF) . It’s not that difficult to use and it’s versatile.
I’ve had good use out of the table saw (Erika 85) but sold it because I felt a large bandsaw was a better fit.
I still have LO65 and LO50 routers but am tempted to sell up, because I’m using hand tools more and more.
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hrose
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by hrose on Oct 12, 2020 15:03:31 GMT -5
Hi bicycleclip! Thanks for your comment.
I'm glad to hear that I might not need a jigsaw that much, at least for now. And I'm glad that you confirmed the DD system's versatility.
One reason I gravitated toward a jigsaw earlier was because I know I will have a very limited space in my garage/workshop. So, I try to steer clear from anything stationary, like table saw, band saw, miter saw, or drill press as much as possible. I try make my workshop as mobile as possible. To put it in perspective, I will treat my own home as if I treat a job site/client's home. The workbench is perhaps the item that occupies the most space in my workshop. And it has to be fully mobile and can be put flat against the garage wall to make room for my 2 cars at night. That's the mentality I equip.
My original plan is to get the Festool MFT3 for my workbench. But the more I thought about it, the less sense it made from the pricing standpoint. So, I plan to DIY my MFT with some aluminum extrusions. However, I haven't been able to figure out the best way to deal with the MFT top, yet. I'm considering between using the PARF guiding system MK2 and the Dominofix MFT jig. If I went for the PARF system, I wouldn't need anything else since I already have a drill. The Dominofix by itself is cheaper than the PARF, but I need to get the 20 mm router bit, the 30 mm bush guide and adapter for my Bosch router. So, the total price would end up being the same as the PARF system eventually. Based on my research, both are believed to be equally accurate/effective. So, my question is, which one is easier/more efficient?
Well, I didn't realize I went off the topic completely. But thanks for the comment anyway!
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Post by holmz on Oct 12, 2020 16:28:39 GMT -5
For sheets a MT55 and a zeta are all one needs. Maybe something like the festool bench with the dog holes for small cuts?
If you are just doing this stuff at home then are the consumables cost an issue? The fact I can take it apart and put it together gives me some peace of mind as I may not be overly skilled.
I have a p1cc as well. It has its place, but there are less times it is required. A delta head sander is probably more useful
A lot of it comes down to whether you will be using sheet goods, or real wood. For the later case the dd40 would be nice. I have a large domino and only used it twice.
Just some pencil sketches would likely help. Or description of what is being done. In the end you may end up with it all, but doing one job at a time, allows one to ease into the work one peice at a time.
I just buy the gear as I need it... and a sander, MT55 and zeta are "the boss" for sheets... and varnish and a brush if they are veneered sheets.
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Post by aas on Oct 13, 2020 0:32:22 GMT -5
Out of all my Mafell kit, the jigsaw is the least used. I don’t enjoy using it. I’ve been pleasantly surprised my DD40p recently (forerunner of the DDF) . It’s not that difficult to use and it’s versatile. I’ve had good use out of the table saw (Erika 85) but sold it because I felt a large bandsaw was a better fit. I still have LO65 and LO50 routers but am tempted to sell up, because I’m using hand tools more and more. LO50 for sale??? :-)
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hrose
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by hrose on Oct 13, 2020 0:39:26 GMT -5
Hi again, holmz! Thanks for this additional comment as well as your comment in the Duo-Dowel system group. I could tell that you really like your Lamello Zeta and are willing to stand by it through thick and thin. I really appreciate how enthusiastic you are about the Zeta system. But like I said in my previous reply, the most important reason I didn't consider the Lamello option in the first place is that I can't afford it. Also, one thing I forgot to mention earlier is that the size of the Lamello connectors (both Clamex and Tenso) doesn't lend itself to joining small pieces, like photo frame. I agree with you that the Lamello Zeta P2 is the best in what it does, that is conveniently joining 2 pieces of wood together using a highly engineered connector. I might even try to cut something else so that I can afford it if the main thing I want to do is cabinets. Unfortunately, I'm not at the point where I can afford a tool at Lamello's price point and devote it to perform only 1 or 2 specific tasks. If I were to spend that much money on a tool, I would love for it to be as versatile as possible. My MT55cc will be my circular saw + table saw + miter saw. And originally, but probably no longer the case, the P1cc will be my jigsaw and band saw.
That said, I learned from Peter Milard's video above that joining small pieces together used to be a limitation of the old DD40 P/G, but Mafell fixed it when they launched the DDF40 by offering a special accessory attachment that allows 2 holes to be drilled very close to each other on a small piece.
And as soon as I learn how to use Fusion 360 to draw my design. I'll share with you.
Anyway, thanks again.
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Post by kraftt on Oct 13, 2020 9:00:15 GMT -5
... It's my wife's ultimatum that if she would allow me to set up a small woodworking shop in our new home's tiny garage, it has to be relatively dust-free. ... one of the first things I plan to build in my new home is the walk-in closet cabinets for my wife ... ...My wife said that she needed some results to see if it's worthwhile to let me buy a fancy brand rather those cheaper brands. So, I need to provide her with a solid proof. Besides the walk-in closet, I also need to build a lot of shelves, both the floating ones and the ones with pin holes... In the interest of avoiding arguments later and seeing you achieve your goal of having your own shop it seems the walk-in closet build is the test you need to pass first, yes? And if I read you correctly your competition is the garage itself - in that it represents storage space. A formidable opponent for a beginner. And it will continue to represent storage space even after the walk-in is built because “ what have you done for me lately” is it’s ally. Holmz mention of “I just buy the gear as I need it” is good advice. Most here, not all, buy tools for business. If the job requires a certain tool, even if it’s just a one time use, we get it. You’re sorta in the same boat. Your ‘client’ expects results so tools specific to the walk-in should take precedent. “ relatively dust free” and routers (etc.) do not go together so dust collection is going to be important for hiding the evidence. I’m thinking a roll out table that stores all the tools underneath could be helpful in that regard if you live in a moderate climate. I would also consider cheap tools an ‘investment’ right now and divert funds towards premium sheet goods (unless she just wants white), edging, led shelve lighting, quality poles & accessories, moldings etc. to impress and solidify your position.
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Post by alvychippy on Oct 13, 2020 10:34:51 GMT -5
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Post by holmz on Oct 13, 2020 16:29:49 GMT -5
Out of all my Mafell kit, the jigsaw is the least used. I don’t enjoy using it. I’ve been pleasantly surprised my DD40p recently (forerunner of the DDF) . It’s not that difficult to use and it’s versatile. I’ve had good use out of the table saw (Erika 85) but sold it because I felt a large bandsaw was a better fit. I still have LO65 and LO50 routers but am tempted to sell up, because I’m using hand tools more and more. I'll take the LO65
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Post by holmz on Oct 13, 2020 16:38:43 GMT -5
Like number of positions in the Kama Sutra, there are many ways to skin a cat.
You probably can use a Japanese pull saw for much of what a p1cc does.
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Post by alvychippy on Oct 13, 2020 17:44:12 GMT -5
Selling Interest registered
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