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Post by aas on Aug 30, 2020 8:07:45 GMT -5
Well this was not really planned and I didn't see this need arising... I'm doing some marble effect solid surface that needs 'folding' to keep the veining wrap around effect on the fronts - try as I much as I could, I was unable to get reliably satisfactory results with the MT55.
Part of the issue is the well documented 45 degrees not lining up with the splinter strip, so calculating where to put the rail was very hit and miss. The second issue comes form the 1,8mm blades used by the MT55 - cutting at 90 degrees is not an issue, but there was too much flex at 45 degrees that created very slight vibration and hence poor cuts. I also tried with the Festool 2,2mm solid surface blades.
A quick decision to get the TS75 has paid off. From the first cut, the finish is glue ready. Using the Festool 2,4mm solid surface blade is giving excellent stability, and the weight and power of the saw is making light work. Very happy with the results, it is a bit of a beast and very heavy - this will probably be used exclusively for solid surface - dust collection not as good as the Mafell, but it's getting the job done!
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Post by alvychippy on Aug 31, 2020 16:52:10 GMT -5
Hmmmm strange. I worked with TS75 for a year flat, breaking big stuff, making IE lipping -fine, but anything veneered, I had to switch back to MT55... 45° cuts I always clamp and due mark up, readjust in accordance, but LHS edge, even being away from splinter guard, lot cleaner, than TS75, I could throw in Hilti WSC265 intricacies, but... Not
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Post by aas on Aug 31, 2020 23:30:57 GMT -5
Solid surface is a bit different to wood based panels - it also has to be perfectly flat to do a 45. I can't comment on the standard (or other) blades - but the solid surface blade is working well with the rest of the setup (to be perfectly flat etc).
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Post by alvychippy on Sept 2, 2020 3:57:14 GMT -5
Never, not once been mitering plastic worktops, do you use resin bond gluing?
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Post by aas on Sept 2, 2020 14:33:07 GMT -5
Never used the plastic polyester based tops - this is what happens when cheap skates try to copy the big boys. (Check out the Wilson-Art class action - appalling product that rightly cost the company a lot of money). High end solid surface is 2/3 to 4/5 ATH - so an aluminium mineral composite - hence the reason it is very hard on blades and cutters. It is glued using a 10:1 acrylic based colour matched adhesive. I got the chance to go to the manufacturer and try the prototype 'new' adhesive last year which has now hit the supply chain. The reputation of solid surface was well and truly tarnished by Wilson Art along with a few others... heard the 'plastic worktops' jibe so many times. Don't know about where you are, but solid surface here has become more desirable in recent years - it is a hygienic and robust, repairable material available in 100's of colours and finishes, including panels that can be backlit, stone effect, concrete effect, marble effect, etc..
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Post by alvychippy on Sept 3, 2020 2:11:28 GMT -5
(I'm in UK) Got me confused now. If that "solid surface" you are talking about synthetic marble, that goes by variety of the names as "Bush-board" "Quartz" or else then they need to be machined with diamond cutters.
If it is "laminate" "Minerva" "Trespa" - they are plastic to touch, hence "plastic" in my vocabulary and pain in backside to work with, as they are hard and some are of the solid colour, but up to 22mm thick and I have never had anything to try to mitre edge-ways.
Can you post some imagery? Would love to get my bearings over what am I talking about
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Post by aas on Sept 3, 2020 12:48:55 GMT -5
The 'inventors' of solid surface was Dupont with Corian.
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Post by alvychippy on Sept 3, 2020 14:10:38 GMT -5
Funilly enough Corian, I have only fitted once, everything has been machined already and if any trimming would potentially be needed, I'd use router... still I can't imagine need to get two Corian surfaces to be mitered surface way...
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Post by aas on Sept 4, 2020 0:14:36 GMT -5
If it's a marble or stone effect, for a dropped front edge, you would want the veining on the surface to wrap around the front; also for waterfall worktops where the end go down to the floor, you want the veining to run along the worktop then down to the floor. The technique is called folding, and there are machines that do just this - you tape up the back, run it through the machine and it is ready to be glued. Obviously, there are a lot of different techniques to solid surface fabrication - it's pretty detailed precision work - the idea being that the joins can't be seen once it's fitted.
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Post by alvychippy on Sept 4, 2020 1:41:01 GMT -5
Was only going to say, Corian had gone bit out of fashion... Could be just MO, but all edging normally done already, If any fitting just straight joints. These days kitchens either that "laminate/Minerva/Trespa" or Quartz, that is significantly more brittle.... But yes- horses for courses, I personally prefer natural marble/granite and cost of them is more or less similar. Cheers
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Post by aas on Sept 4, 2020 12:36:14 GMT -5
There is a place for everything. I don't use Corian, but an equivalent, slighty more expensive. It comes in sheets and I fabricate entirely from scratch. It is excellent for bathrooms, shower trays etc., not just kitchen worktops. There are places that granite is not practical due to the join - some places / businesses really need / want seamless, hygienic, easy to clean, easy to repair, antibacterial etc. I for one don't like granite, it is not hygienic and it is very noisy (putting plates on etc., it can chip, the joins become very grubby, etc. Solid surface is warm to the touch - remember I'm up at 2000m of altitude most days, it gets cold up here!... can be repaired and brought back to new - this is pretty important if you're renting out your ski chalet.
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Post by kraftt on Sept 4, 2020 20:23:36 GMT -5
First time working with solid surfacing material was wrapping the an entire production control room in midnight sky Avonite. Ah, brings back such fond memories.
Prior to this I had gone to a local distributor looking for a fabricator recommendation for a simple Corian vanity overlay top to finish off a bath remodel. What I didn’t know at the time was that distributors recommend the people who owe them the most money. More on that in a moment.
So I went over to the guys shop, we’ll call him Kenny, everything looked right, large facility, spendy tools, plenty of worker bees. Got the Corian top a few days later, scribed and installed it myself.
Couple weeks go by and Kenny calls me out of the blue remembering my interest in his shop and remarking on my eye for detail blah blah. Tells me he has to leave back home for a family emergency and needs someone to manage his guys while he’s away. I tell him I know absolutely nothing about solid surfacing but he persists and offers money that turns my head.
What I was sold was that his guys know everything and that he would return in one week. What I got was a time sensitive rush job wrapping the first all digital edit bay at Woodholly Productions (Hollywood backwards), almost the whole damn room. Tons of compound angles and complexities, cutouts around equip and of course his employees didn’t know much at all. I also got to spend a lot of time in the front office of the production studios trying to calm down the owner somewhere on a yacht over a speaker phone while his facility manager added facial cues. This is where I learned that we could only work late hours to early morning in the facility. Then when attempting to pick up supplies from the a-hole distributor, that originally referred me to satan, I learned Kenny was being physically hunted by the IRS.
But it gets better. The Rodney King riots broke out. Picture two white pickup trucks with a bunch of guys jammed in each, covered head to toe in polyester(?) dust, staring blankly from exhaustion at the revelers outside. Nobody touched us.
About a month later Kenny came out of hiding, I got paid (would have been paid regardless because to keep me on after I learned the truth the studio owner had to contractually agree to back up my pay), the rip off price to wrap the edit bay helped towards a good faith payment to the IRS and I swore I would never touch solid surface again.
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Post by aas on Sept 5, 2020 0:55:29 GMT -5
Good anecdote. Avonite - another one of the cheap polyester solid surfaces... never used it - I stick to the proper stuff. Dust is a problem, I wear a proper mask with cartouche (I can't think of the word in English - I think it's canister or something like that), lots of dust extractors, tools that have good dust extraction, and I still end up sweeping it off the floor during the day - it's heavy dust and even the best dust extraction setup is not perfect.
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Post by kraftt on Sept 5, 2020 9:50:23 GMT -5
.. Avonite - another one of the cheap polyester solid surfaces... That Avonite was indeed garbage. Due to this versions dark color the mfg warned you couldn’t allow sunlight to hit it or it would warp. It also wasn’t recommended for use in a space that wasn’t climate controlled. (that job was bid and a deposit given long before I got involved and I’ve always wondered what the bat cave looked like with all that equipment running 24/7 after the HVAC either failed one day or someone turned it off). It really did make snow when you cut or ground it. I do respect the fabrication process for these materials though. It’s a bit of an art and definitely a speciality that requires the right tools.
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Post by aas on Sept 5, 2020 11:20:49 GMT -5
I do respect the fabrication process for these materials though. It’s a bit of an art and definitely a speciality that requires the right tools. It's a steep learning curve - you think you're really good with wood, melamine board, etc... then you start using solid surface and the slightest error in how you hold your router, how you use your sander, little techniques that you think will get you by, etc., it is there for all to see.
As far as tools go, that router you thought was great starts vibrating, that sander that works OK on wood is leaving swirly marks, etc...
Then there is tooling - te router cutters, saw blades, sandpaper that you always swore by, you now swear at!..
There's a reason it's an expensive product - there is a lot of investment to do it right.
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