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Post by taylorkitchens on Jan 12, 2014 13:46:41 GMT -5
hey guys, New to the forum, i was shown this by ghostfist as im looking at getting a Mafell plunge saw/kss now what im struggling to find is a true view of both and which is honestly THE BEST? i just want the BEST plunge saw any help or info would be greatly appreciated
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Post by jonathan on Jan 12, 2014 13:56:09 GMT -5
First of all, are you already invested in Festool and more importantly, their guide rails?
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Post by taylorkitchens on Jan 12, 2014 13:59:39 GMT -5
luckily no, the only Festool tool i have is the OF2200 router
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Post by jonathan on Jan 12, 2014 14:34:53 GMT -5
I've owned both. Used to own a TS55 (not the R model though) Now I've just got the MT55cc. Festool- The TS55R can do shadow cuts alongside a wall, the MT55cc simply can't do that as the extraction port stick out to the right side.
- The TS55R has a horizontal front handle, which makes it easier to handle if you should ever do vertical cuts or any other weird cutting position.
- Another nice feature on the Festool that the Mafell doesn't have, is the replaceable plug-it power cord. If you use dust extraction with all your tools and have a plug-it power cord permanently attached to your dust hose it makes taking the tools out and putting them back into the systainers a lot easier & less fussy than tools that have a fixed power cord. It also makes switching between tools less annoying in my experience.
- The TS55 has a riving knife, the MT55 does not have this.
- Mafell is still using the classic systainers with 4 seperate latches while Festool has the nice new T-Loc design with a single twist knob.
- Festool offers parallel guides for rip cuts, Mafell does not offer such an accessory.
- Festool also has the MFT/3 workbench with attached rail that can flip out of the way when not cutting.
- Also Festool has a much larger dealer network with easier access to consumables and repairs.
MafellIn all other things, the Mafell is (in my opinion) superior. - Better materials and build quality all-round.
A prime example is the stamped angle indicator on the Festool vs the seperate red indicator on the Mafell. Although some don't like it's look, Mafell uses a more durable protective paint on the base plate and housing. I can tell because after using a TS55 for a year, my baseplate was scratched like it was in use for 5 years. After a year, my Mafell also has some, but way less and isn't showing bare metal yet, unlike the Festool was.
The angle can also be set with a single knob in the front, not 2 like with the Festool.
- Better dust extraction.
The dust port on the MT55cc also clicks in place so that the hose doesn't automatically fall and hang down catching on everything like the TS55.
- Truly fully enclosed blade with a faster and easier blade switching mechanism which gives you full access to your blade.
If you want to change the blade on the Festool, you have to plunge your saw to full depth. So after changing your blade you need to reset your plunge depth to continue cutting. With the Mafell the entire blade enclosure falls open and you don't have to adjust the depth setting.
- Stronger motor providing higher speed, less times the motor cuts out on you and all-round resulting in safer cuts with better quality of cut.
- The Mafell also has a very easy to operate scoring switch which offsets the blade 0.1mm to the left for splinter free cuts in laminated boards.
Flip a switch, the saw only plunges a few mm to score, flip it back and you cut to your set depth.
- The Mafell rails are also better designed than Festool's.
You join them with a single tool-less connector (that stores on the rail itself) and the rails are automatically straightened out in the process. Festool needs 2 connectors, one on the top, one on the bottom you need a screwdriver and you need a straight edge to align them straight. It's really quite cumbersome once you've used Mafell's. The rubber cutting edge also doesn't peel off after X amount of time as it's actually attached into the rail extrusion itself instead of just glued on. This also makes replacing said rubber strip less annoying than Festool's where you have to use chemicals to remove the glue before you can actually replace it.
I think that's about it. Don't get me wrong, the Festool TS55R isn't a bad saw, far from it, but you asked which is better and these are the reasons why I personally think the Mafell MT55cc is the better saw.
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Post by taylorkitchens on Jan 12, 2014 14:54:29 GMT -5
They are some very good points, i know what you mean with the splinter guard as i have a hilti 22v circular saw and rail which is good for straight cuts but thats about it. You say Mafell don't offer parallel guide rails whats the difference? sorry if that is the most stupid question.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 12, 2014 14:57:33 GMT -5
I too am looking at getting into the Mafell system. I already am using the TS-75, and feel like I've hit the boundaries of efficient on-site use of the Festool track system, and feel like the Mafell will better suit my needs.
The Festool saws themselves are nice machines, my greatest complaint is the tracks. Specifically, connecting sections of track to rip 4x8 sheet goods can become very cumbersome. The design of the track connectors means that, to connect two sections of track, you much first align the sections, either with a Betterly Straightline connector (Best), aligning with a 4' level (OK), or relying on the squareness of the track ends (so-so). Then, once the tracks are aligned you have to tighten a total of 8(!) set screws that rely on friction to hold the tracks in alignment. If you bump the assembly against a wall, you run the risk of throwing it out of alignment. If you want to rely on two sections of track for cross-cutting AND ripping 4x8 sheets, connecting, disconnecting, realigning and reconnecting the tracks can become very cumbersome.
The alternative is to go with a single track for cross-cutting sheets, and a long track (for instance, the 118"/3000mm length) for ripping 8' sheets. The problem with this track is transportation and storage. Fine in a shop environment where you can have a defined "landing pad" for the track, but if you're working on-site it can be cumbersome to have a safe home for such a long track, plus transportation can be tricky if you don't own a van.
I'd say, if you're working in a shop, the Festool tracks work pretty nicely, particularly given their wide range of accessories and integration into the greater Festool system. For on-site work, it depends on how much space you have, and how much time you can spare working around the joining the tracks.
Aside from the build quality of the Mafell saws themselves, I am particularly impressed by the track design, specifically the ease by which a user can quickly align and connect two sections of track. A single connector is required, and the connector also aligns the tracks.
The TS-55R has a splinter guard on the right side of the blade, whereas the MT-55cc has the scoring feature which should serve the same function. The TS-55 has a riving knife, whereas the MT-55cc does not. If you're planning on ripping a lot of wet, screwy lumber this might be important, but if you're mostly processing sheet goods and cross cuts you should be fine without.
The TS-55 is rated at 1200 watts, while the MT-55cc is rated at 1400 watts, so you get more power with the Mafell.
I hope this helps! I've been very impressed by the knowledge of the users here, I'm looking forward to placing my Mafell order soon!
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Post by taylorkitchens on Jan 12, 2014 15:05:28 GMT -5
Thats cool, i really just fit kitchens and do the odd carpentry job, bit of second fixing, doors and built in storage/ wardrobes a lot of laminated chipboard, specifically high glossy faced sheets/panels also what does the CC stand for?
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Post by jonathan on Jan 12, 2014 15:14:19 GMT -5
The CC stands for Cuprex Compact motor. It's to indicate their newest motors. Apparantly they're very proud of them as they're stronger than the competition's by using more and more tightly wound copper. At least that's what the Mafell brochures say
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 12, 2014 15:15:43 GMT -5
The Parallel Guides are track accessories that allow you to make repeated rips at a set dimension. Here is the link to a helpful review of them: www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/review%20of%20the%20festool%20parallel%20guides.pdfThere are a few other aftermarket parallel guides out there, one that uses Incra tracks, I imagine some could be adapted for use with the Mafell tracks. I own the parallel guides, but only use them VERY infrequently. If I were building cabinetry where I was processing many panels of the same size, then I might use them more, but right now I feel I'm faster with a tape, pencil, and razor blades.
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Post by taylorkitchens on Jan 12, 2014 15:33:38 GMT -5
Yes i see what you mean, i don't using anything like that now so wouldn't see my self using that in the future. ive read a lot on the mafell stuff but there ins't a great deal of info on them. i only thought of it as a friend literally said "christ look how much that parallel plunge saw is!"
i am thinking the MT55cc is the way im going to go, seems to fit my bill more than the festool would plus im an onsite guy not a workshop one if that makes a difference
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Post by jonathan on Jan 12, 2014 15:38:20 GMT -5
I like how you put it, that's actually the way I see it myself. Even though I see a lot of Festool on-site, but almost never Mafell. Doesn't change the facts though.
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Post by taylorkitchens on Jan 12, 2014 16:06:51 GMT -5
Very true, I've just read my post with some bad wording :/ think I may order myself one tomorrow morning
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Post by christoph on Jan 12, 2014 16:10:41 GMT -5
Festool
- The TS55 has a riving knife, the MT55 does not have this.
Jonathan, thats a GREAT comparison, THANKS!!! Regarding the riving knife i have to say that i was comparing both saws too before buying the MT55. And i found NOTHING regarding the riving knife that leads me to the opinion that the Mafell MT55 is less secure. If you read some threads in the FOG there are several Festool owners reporting problems with kickbacks while using their TS55 (R), NEVER read that with a MT55.
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Post by bavanor on Jan 12, 2014 19:37:25 GMT -5
You can have kickback on the mt55cc, but for me it has always been user error, doh!
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Post by christoph on Jan 12, 2014 19:53:01 GMT -5
You can have kickback on the mt55cc, but for me it has always been user error, doh! Ok, first time i read this. Can you discribe situations when you had kickbacks?! What went wrong and how do you avoid them now?
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