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Post by hecon5 on Jun 5, 2020 18:39:01 GMT -5
Has anyone used their tracks on the ceiling to open it up for a skylight or exposed joists look?
Trying to think of ways to reduce stuff falling right on my face as I cut. Thinking putting up a shelf to catch the drywall, kind of like one of those drywall install jigs, except in reverse, and using the track and mt55 to cut the hole around the edge and catch most of the dust. Has anyone had much luck with such a thing?
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Post by kraftt on Jun 5, 2020 20:06:19 GMT -5
I’ve used Aerofix suction on vertical existing drywall and vertical cabinet walls. Mostly on drywall. Dust suction was ‘good’. But will only use again on vertically installed drywall if length of runs justify it - or - if that level of precision is needed because some kind of overlay framework has very little coverage/overlap so I’m not having to touch up drywall because of a wandering cut or marking up paint with taped base of jigsaw.
Overhead I would not recommend it at all. 1) you could not trust track suction so you would need to drill screw holes though rail to affix. 2) With or without a rail too much could go wrong holding saw above you with both hands providing upwards and lateral force at same time standing on a ladder or scaffold.
100% safer and just as fast to follow a laser (or chalk line) with a shortened blade in a jigsaw holding a vac hose, or the best option - that Makita drywall jigsaw with vac attachment.
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Post by hecon5 on Jun 5, 2020 20:15:22 GMT -5
*looks at spinning blade, hangs head in shame*
I will look into that Makita, thanks!
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Post by aas on Jun 6, 2020 6:42:06 GMT -5
The Makita drywall jigsaw is awesome - I have the 18v version, use it a lot - no dust when connected to a vac, very easy to follow lines, not expensive - what's not to like! :-)
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Post by huntsgemein on Jun 7, 2020 2:57:26 GMT -5
What I tended to do with "difficult" ceilings (sloping, irregular, easily marked or damaged) was to do my basic layout on the floor. Using butcher's paper if necessary. Maybe start the basic layout with an initial plumb bob drop from a reference point on said ceiling.
That way, layouts for luminaires, vents, skylights etc. were always oriented, spaced & aligned correctly. From this basic floor layout, a cheap, simple, relatively foolproof plumb laser can be used to transfer waypoints, corners, centers etc. up top again. Straight lines can be marked with a spirit level or other appropriate straight edge.
Cutting is done simply, accurately & inexpensively with a plaster jabsaw, unless in a more resilient material such as cement board, where TCT mini-recipsaw or jigsaw blades (my baby Metabo takes both) or tungsten grit holesaws for circular holes.
Unless you're making literally hundreds or thousands of holes & fenestrations, specialist power tools for this single task are a bit of an extravagance in my opinion. A jabsaw is actually going to be faster, but necessarily more messy.
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Post by aas on Jun 7, 2020 5:49:29 GMT -5
Unless you're making literally hundreds or thousands of holes & fenestrations, specialist power tools for this single task are a bit of an extravagance in my opinion. A jabsaw is actually going to be faster, but necessarily more messy. Of course you make a good point... but I for one, am happy to purchase tools to eliminate 'messy'. It's not just the dust that falls that is easy enough to vacuum up, but the dust that becomes airborne, settles, and then becomes airborne again next time we move, long after the dust mask has been removed. Better to eliminate the maximum amount of dust at source.
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Post by hecon5 on Jun 7, 2020 11:10:37 GMT -5
This is my thought, too, and one of the reasons I spent probably too long picking out a vacuum. I'm not going to collect everything, but every bit I do is one less thing I don't need to clean or stir up while cleaning.
If there was a jigsaw with the drywall collection of the Makita, I'd jump on that, but I haven't seen anything that collects dust overhead as nicely as it, unless someone has an aftermarket mod for a regular jigsaw. Then I could use it on materials that are a tad thicker, too.
Seems like one of the limitations of that drywall saw is the blades are short and proprietary, so if you have plaster/lath ceilings, you'll end up with needing a jigsaw to finish the job anyway. Or can it take regular blades, too? The pictures I found of the thing don't show the base of the blade well, probably intentionally.
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Post by aas on Jun 7, 2020 13:17:00 GMT -5
The blade ref is B-49703 - the blade is not standard. It can be adjusted, but the great thing is it cuts just the drywall and not anything behind - pipes, cables etc...
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Post by huntsgemein on Jun 7, 2020 18:21:24 GMT -5
Forgot about those dreaded lath & plaster ceilings. If there's one type of "delicate" ceiling to absolutely NOT apply power tools to the task of penetration, it's these. You're all but guaranteed to turn a simple task into a huge mess.
If a blade catches on even a single individual wooden lath, it can vibrate, crack & even tear down a massive chunk of unstable horsehair ceiling on top of you. Finesse & care is required with these unstable ceilings. A nice, newish sharp jabsaw,, cutting on the push stroke only will help to reduce the otherwise inevitable mess, together with a generous dropsheet. Using any type of jig- or other reciprocating bladed saws here is an absolute recipe for disaster & mess.
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Post by kraftt on Jun 7, 2020 19:18:13 GMT -5
Years ago I saw a demo of the Kett Saw and wanted one until they quoted a price. By now you would have thought they would have updated it to accept your own cordless drill driver, but no, it's still bolted to their proprietary corded drill. Have to use their saw blades. The models with vac attach are the KSV-432 / KSV-434. If you search Kett Saw on youtube you will see tons of vids. They sell on eBay for 180 to 300 used. Nothing close to the speed & quality of cut using a track saw on drywall.
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Post by hecon5 on Jun 7, 2020 19:47:37 GMT -5
I saw those Kett saws, but at the price, I can get a whole slew of stuff, and wasn't sure if its actually better than a reciprocating saw.
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Post by huntsgemein on Jun 7, 2020 20:13:55 GMT -5
I can see merit in using one of those micro saws in comparison to a saber-saw. At least the circular toothed & gritted blades aren't going to catch on either laths or furring channels. I've had absolute disasters from using a saber-saw on the latter, especially when its used to span considerable voids. Shakes the whole unsupported plaster panel literally to pieces in a trice.
I seem to recall that both Bobbie Bosch & another (forgottten) English maker have produced independently (i.e. integrally) powered micro-saws that also offer optional extraction. Not that I've ever actually used one but the concept is I consider useful for doing small-scale floorboard, wall & ceiling penetrations in a variety of materials. No, I'm not talking about that ridiculous micro-chainsaw thing that Bosch currently lflogs. That just seems like a silly toy to me.
The variety of blades on offer: diamond & tungsten gritted, TCT, PCD & HSS, continuous, slotted & toothed rims etc. makes for a useful, relatively easily & safely handled & useful for a variety of materials including natural stone & ceramic tile, plaster, timber, Hardieflex etc. Plus they presumably minimise the risk of grabbing & shaking the shit out of any loose substrates.
I also note that there's a swag of East Asian microsaws available now. Many are cordless (mostly 3-cell 10.8V) but by the looks of it few actually offer any form of extraction.
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Post by kraftt on Jun 7, 2020 20:44:14 GMT -5
With a good enclosure like the mafell MT has, and any other track saw with a bit of tape, high speed carbide is great for drywall processing. MT55 & MF26 definitely approved for this use as well as cement board etc. But a jig saw set at slowest speed with a snapped short coarse blade works well for demo. And if the blade length is sized right it will never cut deeper than ⅝" / 16mm (just cut or snap to that distance at full downstroke - but try for an angled cut). Advantages are it cuts fast / uses cheap used, but very robust, blades. Disadvantage is having to hold a nozzle along side and only about 90º dust collection at best. It helps to temp tape off slots for fan motor where they blow air out. I've also taped the end of a hose along side parallel with an added piece of cardboard to turn 90º and meet close to the blade. But hand holding the nozzle has advantages as you need to turn the jigsaw in different positions. I really don't see why the Makita didn't use standard short coarse blades, they are very effective.
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