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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jan 6, 2014 18:34:17 GMT -5
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 6, 2014 19:58:00 GMT -5
Wrightwoodwork, how durable/job site tough is the Angle Fence W-FA? Where this line of questioning is going is, is it reasonable to expect to be able to use the W-FA and a MT-55cc to cross cut 2x4 and 2x6 lumber? Or, for cross-cutting, are users really best off using a KSS saw?
I am still just REALLY struggling on this subject. Obviously, I wouldn't expect to frame up an addition using this technique, it's those tricky in-between projects, the ones where you'll cut 50 studs and break down 8 sheets of plywood, that get me thinking…..
One thing that seems to be worth mentioning, it sounds like the integral track on the KSS saws have positive detents at certain angles, whereas it sounds like the W-FA does not have detents, is this correct?
It might be worth creating a thread in the Accessories area with high-definition photos of the W-FA, might help users visualize it better?
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Post by GhostFist on Jan 6, 2014 22:43:58 GMT -5
The angle fence is more than fine for 2x's. The detent on the angle fence is at 0degrees(90) but it doesn't work the same way as the kss fences , you have to push it into the detent while you tighten it.
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Post by 7 on Jan 6, 2014 22:58:04 GMT -5
My 2 cents: I love the MT55 but would hate using it for a framing saw (cutting 2x4s, 6s, 12s etc) You mentioned a deck as a sample scenario. I would like the MT55 for the deck surface because I run all the deck boards wild except the one against the house then cut them all off straight at the very end. I would not consider using the MT55 for the structural framing (joists, posts, etc)
My main point: if you are serious about having literally only one saw (as opposed to one Mafell saw) I would choose the KSS400 with some f rails and connectors added in. If only sheet goods, cabinets, etc then for sure the MT55. Versatility as an all purpose saw though it would have to be the 400.
Disclaimer: I haven't used the angle rail but can't picture it being great for framing, could be wrong.
I have the KSS300 & MT55 but still use standard worm drive circular saws for framing. KSS 300 or 400 would do well for a larger range of tasks (flooring, framing, sheet goods, decking…) Also in my opinion the MT55 blows them all away for furniture using box construction or table tops etc.
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Post by jkuc003 on Jan 7, 2014 5:35:40 GMT -5
Thanks for that 7. Is there a reason why you wouldn't use the MT55 for 2x's though? Not enough power or....? I understand the saw won't cut 4x's however I will be able to run two cuts if necessary. And yes for the time being I will only have the one saw, if the need arises in due course I may get an Erika but for now it will be the only one.
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Post by woodie on Jan 7, 2014 10:12:22 GMT -5
It might be worth creating a thread in the Accessories area with high-definition photos of the W-FA, might help users visualize it better? I don't have the W-FA, although I still think the concept of this and say the F-80 with a rail connector could be nearly as handy as the KSS. Here's a link to a higher resolution shot of the W-FA my-tools.ie/thumb.html?id=850112I totally agree that using this with longer rails might not be as useful, as you'd be fighting the friction strips on the rail. I can't see that being a problem with the 80/110cm rails though?
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Post by jalvis on Jan 7, 2014 10:46:54 GMT -5
I used the MT55 and rail just the other day to rip a 2x4. Works fine but I would use the Tenryu ripping blade.
When it comes to framing I have always used a speed square and circular saw.
The W-FA does have detents at certain degrees but I can't remember which ones other then 90 and 45.
I know that everyone wants the one saw that does it all but thats really not realistic unless your work is very narrow. Chances are you will find two saws that fit the majority and even then you will want more tools!
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 7, 2014 14:27:52 GMT -5
Along the lines of using the W-FA angle fence on its own or with a short track, would it perform ok with the MT-55cc for making occasional millwork cross cuts? For instance , you need to cut a handful of base and it's not quite worth breaking out the miter saw?
Where this is leading, instead of a KSS-300 for trim, could a guy use a KSS-400 for general carpentry, and for fine sheet goods and joinery use the MT-55?
For a one-of saw, it sounds like you need to figure out if you want a greater emphasis on rough or finish carpentry. It sounds like the KSS-400 is a great all-around performer, but isn 't quite as powerful or refined as the MT-55 or as nimble as the KSS-300.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Jan 7, 2014 15:23:47 GMT -5
The F-WA fence is plenty durable for site use. Obviously standing on it and dropping stuff on it wouldn't be recommended. I usually stand it out the way the times when it has being blown over be knocked it perfectly fine. Also when I'm using the rails I always make sure they are flat on the ground ,then if someone does stand on it, it won't get kinked.The rails will stand up to getting stood on as can happen . Not sure I wouldnt want to use the F-WA rail predominantly for framing it will be fine for 90 degree cuts but angle cuts the cutting length is too short ok for 3x2 once you get past 4x2 I think would be to awkward . Jonathan made a good point of using the p1cc with the F-WA fence could be handy at times when doing simple checks. It would be great to have one saw to do it all but is not practical. Instead of thinking of every task you carry out think of what task you are predominantly doing and get the saw to suit that task. Each saw has there own strong points, but not one saw is better than the other it's just some are better suited to certain tasks. If I was busy doing shop fitting I would get the mt55. The kss saws will manage for a one oft but no where near as good . If I was busy 1st fixing I would use the kss400 the kss300 and mt55 will do but not as well suited . Now if I was doing laminate flooring lots of set ups, jobbing work where I not sure what I might need then I would be going for the the kss300 as it is light portable and versatile for the size . If I was processing sheet goods and all was different I would be using the guide rails, but if all where the same then I would be using a panel saw as easier for repative work . I've always bought the tools to suit the task I currently working. Now sometimes I might use a tool for ages or not use something for a long time. Now to me it doesn't matter the tools have paid for them self so don't owe me anything but then when I get a one off job or there is a change in plans then I usually have the tool to do the job
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Post by GhostFist on Jan 7, 2014 18:57:44 GMT -5
I should do some diagrams to illustrate doing trim work with a kss, ideally the 300. There are some points to consider, such as the saw only tilts one way, so you may have to cut from the backside of the piece to get the right bevel. Also, with profiled moldings, you have to keep in mind how the saw sits on the piece when doing beveled cuts so you don't create an unwanted compound. This is easily overcome if you have a piece of scrap of the same material you can use to level out the saw, or you can make a real basic miter box or similar type jig. The kss 300 is great for basic trimwork, i've done baseboards, shoe moldings, door jambs and casings and the like and it's best suited for paint grade trim i'd say. If you're doing some fancy stuff, you'll want a miter saw to get the job done but the 300 is still a great help if you need to take a hair off at the point of installation and don't want to march all the way back to your saw station.
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Post by 7 on Jan 7, 2014 21:18:45 GMT -5
On the subject of the KSS 300 I have a job tomorrow where we need to go back after already being finished with the main job of installing base and casings throughout a basement. The owner wants to add one new interior door and case it. I used to dread jobs like this because it was so dumb to set up the entire miter saw for so little work. I also have one piece of baseboard (skirting to some??) that the homeowner ruined on a job we also just completed. The KSS keeps me from whining about these little quick jobs. It even almost makes them fun because its easy to remember the old way of doing it.
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Post by 7 on Jan 7, 2014 21:34:35 GMT -5
Thanks for that 7. Is there a reason why you wouldn't use the MT55 for 2x's though? Not enough power or....? I understand the saw won't cut 4x's however I will be able to run two cuts if necessary. And yes for the time being I will only have the one saw, if the need arises in due course I may get an Erika but for now it will be the only one. I would use the MT55 for ripping 2xs lengthwise for sure. I will be ripping 2x12s this week with it. Ripping blade, track clamped & plenty of power. Crosscutting the framing lumber is where I would have a problem. When plunging the saw it is natural to push the saw forward while plunging which is awkward when not on a rail. Also the blade is not visible so you are using a red indicator line on the saw, I would prefer to see that this indicator line is lined up with the cut line on the front of the saws base plate and that the blade is lined up with the same cut line when entering the cut. This all may be due to my "tool upbringing" but in my opinion the MT55 is a bad choice for framing. I am used to using a standard circular saw (cheap compared to mafell or festool) with no rail. The KSS400 (or baby 300) are normal sidewinder circular saws when removed from their attached rails and would work well for framing. I prefer circular saws with the blade on the left side instead of the right like the KSS saws but if I wasn't already used to that small detail I am guessing I would just as easily get used to the blade on the right side of the saw.
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