robuk
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by robuk on Dec 29, 2013 15:41:21 GMT -5
I was looking at the metabo ASR2025. Having read some of the other posts on vacuums it seems that Starmix makes or licenses for other firms. Is there any diference in actual use? Looking at the Mafell version it seems to have another control dial. I'm assuming this is for different hose diameters? The Metabo comes with a 35mm hose so do most guys use a 27mm or 35mm with their MT55 ? Thanks
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Post by jalvis on Dec 29, 2013 16:22:34 GMT -5
I use the 27mm with the Festool vacs. I'm content with the dust collection. The larger hose works best with my miter saw and electric planers.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Dec 29, 2013 16:31:57 GMT -5
The first dial on the mafell is to adjust the air flow say for a sander the other dial is for on, off,auto and auto with self cleaner which bangs and shakes the filters for 5 seconds approximately. The mafell comes with the 27mm hose which is quiet flexible. For most tools the 27mm hose works perfectly fine like using a sander, jigsaw, ksp saws, etc. Then I use the 35mm for my planer some dewalt. Then I also have the 49 for the Erika.
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Post by woodie on Dec 29, 2013 19:45:13 GMT -5
I use the large Festool antistatic hose (36mm) with my MT55cc. I think dust collection is better, although the large hose is quite stiff. I am curious about Festool's new tapered hose. I think it's 32mm and tapers to 27mm at the tool end.
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Post by jonathan on Dec 29, 2013 20:26:28 GMT -5
woodie, that hose is something they assimilated from Protool. I actually happen to have bought a Protool VCP 260 E-L-AC when many stores cleared their stock at discounts. (It's actually quite shameless how Festool is now charging almost a 250 euros premium for the same unit. But that's a whole other discussion on it's own) The hose starts out at 36mm diameter but quickly tapers down to 32mm after a distance of +- 50cm. So 75% of the hose is 32mm in diameter with a standard 36mm rubber tool connector at the end. For what it's worth, dust collection is always THE most important thing for any tool I buy. From my experience and non-scientific experiments I've found what makes the biggest difference is not so much the hose diameter but rather the rubber nozzle end. The rubber nozzle end of a 27 hose is inserted INSIDE a tool's dust shroud, which reduces the dust port diameter on any tool by such a large degree it really impedes dust collection. Whereas a 36mm connector wraps around the OUTSIDE of that shroud, not pinching the airflow. The airflow is already being pinched dramatically by a 27mm diameter hose itself and then some more at the rubber nozzle when it finally arrives at the tool itself. A 32mm and 36mm hose leave about 40%-50% more room for airflow and chips/dust to pass. Other than that, I find there's little discernible difference between the dust collection performance/effectiveness of a 36 vs 32 mm hose. It handles surprisingly more comfortably than a 36mm hose and it's dust collection capabilities aren't impeded like a 27mm hose. (Given it has a 36mm nozzle at the end). I think 32mm is the golden middle way. I use a 36mm to 32mm reducer connector (also made by Protool) when I need to connect a sander/jigsaw/... Just slide it into the 36mm nozzle end & presto. No muss, no fuss. I see many people use a short "pigtail" of 27mm hose with a 27mm connector on each end but I think this adapter is much more compact to store/transport and easier in use. So in conclusion, in the shop I currently use a grey 36mm, 5m long non-AS festool hose on a boom arm and I take the 3.5m Protool hose on site. But I'm considering to invest in a 5m 32mm Protool AS hose for the boomarm, at a more affordable price than what Festool sells them for, before they're no longer available. I don't notice a drop in dust collection abilities between a 32mm vs 36mm hose like I do with a a 27mm. But it does handle noticeably better (a lot less obtrusive than a 36mm hose and almost as unobtrusive as a 27mm one) Again, a nice middle ground. Concering AS vs non-AS, when attached to a boom arm I've never experienced any static, and the flexibility of a non-AS is actually quite preferable over the rigidness of an AS hose. Another hose I've been considering is MIRKA's black 5.5m 32mm AS hose with integrated power cable. The upsides are it's also 32mm in diameter and apparantly more flexible then Festool/Protool's. The main reason though would be that I assume it might reduce the times the power cable velcroed to my hose on stuff gets snagged on a rail or workpiece? The downside is it's 32mm all the way and I'd have to cannibalise or buy a 32mm rubber nozzle from my Protool hose. Furthermore I'd have to cut off the 3-pin connector at the end and solder on a Festool plug-it... Food for thought...
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Post by 7 on Dec 29, 2013 23:21:21 GMT -5
Jonathan- What is the unique systainer with the vents in the side that is on top or your vac in the first picture?
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Post by woodie on Dec 29, 2013 23:33:02 GMT -5
Ooh... I think that's Festool's vacuum clamping system, nice! Not available in the US of course.
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Post by jonathan on Dec 30, 2013 3:37:47 GMT -5
7, It's indeed a Festool vac-sys vacuum pump. About a year ago, I saw it listed on our equivalent of Craigslist for just under 50% of retail value. Couldn't resist and just called the guy. The guy I bought it from makes window frames. He had bought 3 full units, but only ever used 2. This 3rd one had been sitting around his shop for about a year, brand new, never used. So yeah, I just bought it. Works good, a bit noisy though. In the shop I mostly use it for routing circles and my DD40 joinery where I'd otherwise need to clamp, unclamp, rotate, re-clamp a piece a lot. But get a bunch of bench dogs and a set of quick clamps and you're just as fast. In the shop, the vacuum clamp only has an advantage when I need to work all surfaces and more specifically when I otherwise have to clamp pieces vertically. I also take it with me from time to time on site. There I kind of use it as a vice of sorts or small bench on top of my vacuum. If you're really looking for a nice vacuum solution, I'd take a look at Schmalz's offerings. More industrial looking, cheaper and every bit as good. It's just not in a systainer. Aside from their fixed swivel head unit (just like the Festool) they also offer separate low profile pads that can just be place anywhere, which is a better solution imo. That brings me to my biggest gripe with the vac-sys. It's just so damn tall on top of an MFT or bench. The work piece is raised too high and it doesn't work comfortably. The air hoses can be a hassle too from time to time. A problem that's eliminated when I use it mounted on the dust extractor. That's why I think it works a lot better on the dust extractor or lower Kapex MFT as a small stand alone unit/island/workstation for certain specific operations. That way I don't have to lug around a table on site. I wouldn't buy this vac-sys new at retail price. All in all, I think it's more of a novelty. You can be just as efficient without it. But hey, I got it at a good price and it's got a "cool-factor", so there you have it...
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robuk
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by robuk on Dec 30, 2013 5:43:55 GMT -5
Wow.... The info and advice given here is great, thanks. Think I'll go for a Festool ctl26. Over here in the UK they sell for £420. Festool have a promotion of £50 off all tools over £400 so it looks like a pretty good deal to me. Only question I have is will I have to fit a plug it to my current and future mafell tools?
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Dec 30, 2013 9:46:20 GMT -5
You can fit plug its the tools if you want. Jonathan has a tutorial showing how for some, but don't have to. Have you got 1 of the vouchers if you don't I have a spare voucher that I can't see using
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robuk
New Member
Posts: 5
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Post by robuk on Dec 30, 2013 14:42:25 GMT -5
Thanks for the offer of a voucher but I've already got one. So can I plug a uk 110v plug into the vac?
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Dec 30, 2013 15:31:54 GMT -5
Yep just get 110 vac Evan if you go down the plug it route will still need a 110 vac for the auto functions to work
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Post by 7 on Dec 31, 2013 1:03:39 GMT -5
jonathan & woodie- how weird is that. I still had no clue what you were talking about so looked it up on youtube. Amazing that it actually works, especially in the vertical position.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jan 13, 2014 20:44:49 GMT -5
woodie, that hose is something they assimilated from Protool. I actually happen to have bought a Protool VCP 260 E-L-AC when many stores cleared their stock at discounts. (It's actually quite shameless how Festool is now charging almost a 250 euros premium for the same unit. But that's a whole other discussion on it's own) The hose starts out at 36mm diameter but quickly tapers down to 32mm after a distance of +- 50cm. So 75% of the hose is 32mm in diameter with a standard 36mm rubber tool connector at the end. For what it's worth, dust collection is always THE most important thing for any tool I buy. From my experience and non-scientific experiments I've found what makes the biggest difference is not so much the hose diameter but rather the rubber nozzle end. The rubber nozzle end of a 27 hose is inserted INSIDE a tool's dust shroud, which reduces the dust port diameter on any tool by such a large degree it really impedes dust collection. Whereas a 36mm connector wraps around the OUTSIDE of that shroud, not pinching the airflow. The airflow is already being pinched dramatically by a 27mm diameter hose itself and then some more at the rubber nozzle when it finally arrives at the tool itself. A 32mm and 36mm hose leave about 40%-50% more room for airflow and chips/dust to pass. Other than that, I find there's little discernible difference between the dust collection performance/effectiveness of a 36 vs 32 mm hose. It handles surprisingly more comfortably than a 36mm hose and it's dust collection capabilities aren't impeded like a 27mm hose. (Given it has a 36mm nozzle at the end). I think 32mm is the golden middle way. I use a 36mm to 32mm reducer connector (also made by Protool) when I need to connect a sander/jigsaw/... Just slide it into the 36mm nozzle end & presto. No muss, no fuss. I see many people use a short "pigtail" of 27mm hose with a 27mm connector on each end but I think this adapter is much more compact to store/transport and easier in use. So in conclusion, in the shop I currently use a grey 36mm, 5m long non-AS festool hose on a boom arm and I take the 3.5m Protool hose on site. But I'm considering to invest in a 5m 32mm Protool AS hose for the boomarm, at a more affordable price than what Festool sells them for, before they're no longer available. I don't notice a drop in dust collection abilities between a 32mm vs 36mm hose like I do with a a 27mm. But it does handle noticeably better (a lot less obtrusive than a 36mm hose and almost as unobtrusive as a 27mm one) Again, a nice middle ground. Concering AS vs non-AS, when attached to a boom arm I've never experienced any static, and the flexibility of a non-AS is actually quite preferable over the rigidness of an AS hose. Another hose I've been considering is MIRKA's black 5.5m 32mm AS hose with integrated power cable. The upsides are it's also 32mm in diameter and apparantly more flexible then Festool/Protool's. The main reason though would be that I assume it might reduce the times the power cable velcroed to my hose on stuff gets snagged on a rail or workpiece? The downside is it's 32mm all the way and I'd have to cannibalise or buy a 32mm rubber nozzle from my Protool hose. Furthermore I'd have to cut off the 3-pin connector at the end and solder on a Festool plug-it... Food for thought... Jonathan, do you happen to have the Festool part #'s for the hose and the adapter? I plan on purchasing some Mafell tools through Timberwolf soon, and I was hoping they could use their Protool/Festool connections to get this hose in North America. Thanks!!
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Post by jonathan on Jan 14, 2014 14:52:59 GMT -5
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