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Post by wrightwoodwork on Mar 13, 2014 12:41:09 GMT -5
That is a pretty penny. Do you think that the 16mm size would work for exterior door construction? What about interior doors? Thanks I believe wrightwoodwork did just that, made exterior doors. How are they holding up wrightwoodwork? I feel that depending on your construction techniques and particular application the 16mm x 75mm dowels may work. But for example, if you're profiling your stiles and rails on a shaper and the groove depth on the sticking is around 1/2 inch your dowel will only penetrate into the stile approximately 1" more or less. In this instance I would not feel comfortable in an exterior application. However for interior doors in a climate controlled environment that may be fine if an adequate amount of dowels can be placed in each joint. So it really depends on the specific application and joint design of your project. I'm still experimenting myself. The doors are holding up fine had no complaints so far I made basic frame a bit like a 4 panel door layout then it was overlaid with ship lap linning boards which was screwed to the face of the frames. Doing it this way added a bracing element to the door. So the door construction is no solely relying on the dowels to do all the work. When making things like this I feel that everything has to work together and if executed correctly can make a joint like a dowel strong enough to meet its service demands in use. Also the type of glue that is used can also make a difference in its service . The modern pu glues are not soaked up into the end grain of the time as the molecular structure of some of these glues is larger than the molecular structure of some timbers preventing them from being soaked into the end grain also sealing the end grain can also help to prevent the glue being soaked up as well . Then there is glues like casimite which are non shrinkable and once set have no flex which are similar to the type of glue used in structural use that will be 2 part glues. If I was going to dowel a scribed shoulder and tennon door I would cut the rails the length they would need to be to allow for the scribed shoulders, but not do the scribe apart for about an inch or 25mm so the rails had the appearance of being scribed. Then on the stiles I would remove the profile, but leaving rough an inch again so it still appears that the shoulders have being scribed to the stiles. Like what would have being done before the use of tennon machines. What is called a franked shoulder I think. Another thing that maybe could be done to add strength to the dowel joint is to mark a line where the dowels go then either using a metal star dowel hammer it through the face so it goes through into the dowel or drill say a 5mm hole for a dowel to again go through through the 16mm dowel. Will need to experiment on that idea. Like I say it is all about clever design and looking at things as a whole. Take tji joists there just 10mm osb with a ply like top and bottom flange that are used floor joists and weight to weight are able to cover larger clear spans with less weight and are just as strong. The flooring also adds to there strength. Try to walk on them they are totally rubbish as they have no strength in side to side movement bit only straight down.  If you look at the clearance one the the top of the doors you can still see that it is parallel showing that they have not dropped Attachments:
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sgtrjp
Junior Member

Posts: 65
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Post by sgtrjp on Mar 13, 2014 12:58:24 GMT -5
I thought that I had a handle on the specifics on these bits until I found CMT's documentation. They say the 312 is for the dd40, yet the cutter length is only 30mm, and it looks completely different. I guess the idea is that you won't need more than 30mm on a bore less than 8mm. I wouldn't think that it would clean the bore out as well though since the cutters won't extend out the hole on depths greater than 30mm. www.cmtutensili.com/media/Files/143_277_boring_bits_2011.pdf
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sgtrjp
Junior Member

Posts: 65
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Post by sgtrjp on Mar 13, 2014 13:05:20 GMT -5
Sorry to keep adding these blurbs, but putting this all together, I think garch hit the nail on the head. For the smaller diameters, the 306 series would be fine. And best of all, much cheaper 
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sgtrjp
Junior Member

Posts: 65
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Post by sgtrjp on Mar 13, 2014 13:20:01 GMT -5
If you needed the full 37mm(or 40mm) with the 306 series, and chip extraction isn't a problem, you could just not insert the bit fully into the chuck. The shank is longer so there is still plenty of shank in the chuck to hold.
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Post by garch on Mar 14, 2014 14:29:10 GMT -5
Here we go.... 
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Mar 14, 2014 23:19:06 GMT -5
Those look like some impressive bits, Garch. How long is the cutting edge?
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Post by garch on Mar 15, 2014 17:25:56 GMT -5
Those look like some impressive bits, Garch. How long is the cutting edge? The drill is 29mm to the shoulder before it tapers. Is that what you mean by cutting edge?
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Mar 15, 2014 21:14:02 GMT -5
Thanks...yes, the length of the cutter. Looks like an impressive drill for sure.
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Post by garch on Mar 28, 2014 17:33:27 GMT -5
Here we go. Only $16.32 each. Will have to try them out tomorrow. Should be perfect for 3mm pins.  
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Post by garch on Mar 28, 2014 18:22:34 GMT -5
I have two 16mm bits on the way, should be here Friday along with the template extension. The bits were $97.60 each, ouch! Didn't find any CMT's in such a large diameter. Thats why I was saying to get the CMT and have a machinist resize from 10mm to 8mm shank. If you get the CMT its only $29 each for a 16mm. My machinist can turn a shank in about 2-3 minutes. I just gave him 12 bits to turn and it will cost me around $50. I'm curious as to why you are having a 10mm shank turned to 8mm in lieu of using the cmt 306 series? Is it cheaper overall, or a diameter not offered in the 306 series? Cutting length for the 5mm thru 12mm in the 306 series is 30mm which I think would be more than sufficient for those diameters. The 306 series pricing is around $12 for the 5mm and $18 for the 12 mm. Just curious, I may be missing something here. If I may ask, Which specific cmt cutter are you having milled down and what is the cost per cutter?
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Post by jalvis on Mar 30, 2014 11:42:32 GMT -5
Thats why I was saying to get the CMT and have a machinist resize from 10mm to 8mm shank. If you get the CMT its only $29 each for a 16mm. My machinist can turn a shank in about 2-3 minutes. I just gave him 12 bits to turn and it will cost me around $50. I'm curious as to why you are having a 10mm shank turned to 8mm in lieu of using the cmt 306 series? Is it cheaper overall, or a diameter not offered in the 306 series? Cutting length for the 5mm thru 12mm in the 306 series is 30mm which I think would be more than sufficient for those diameters. The 306 series pricing is around $12 for the 5mm and $18 for the 12 mm. Just curious, I may be missing something here. If I may ask, Which specific cmt cutter are you having milled down and what is the cost per cutter? I got them because of size. I got two sets in 10.6mm for some special hardware. The others sizes are as follows: 5mm, 5.1mm, 1/4 in, 3/8 in, and 1/2 in. All but the 5mm are odd sizes that I didn't see in the 306 series. The CMTs totaling 10 bits cost me $139.92.
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Post by garch on Mar 30, 2014 12:05:49 GMT -5
I'm curious as to why you are having a 10mm shank turned to 8mm in lieu of using the cmt 306 series? Is it cheaper overall, or a diameter not offered in the 306 series? Cutting length for the 5mm thru 12mm in the 306 series is 30mm which I think would be more than sufficient for those diameters. The 306 series pricing is around $12 for the 5mm and $18 for the 12 mm. Just curious, I may be missing something here. If I may ask, Which specific cmt cutter are you having milled down and what is the cost per cutter? I got them because of size. I got two sets in 10.6mm for some special hardware. The others sizes are as follows: 5mm, 5.1mm, 1/4 in, 3/8 in, and 1/2 in. All but the 5mm are odd sizes that I didn't see in the 306 series. The CMTs totaling 10 bits cost me $139.92. Understood. Thanks for the info. Did you you get to try them out?
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Post by sylwestercarpenter on Apr 6, 2014 15:20:49 GMT -5
Hello guys I've use mafell DD40 since few years and use it to make mostly wardrobes, cupboards etc. from laminated chipboard or MDF, for that kind of material I use 8mm bits. It is expensive to buy it,so get an idea to buy good quality cobalt drill bits from wwww.axminster.co.uk each cost me £7.74 then I've cut shank at the lenght and to desired overall lenght, afetr that I've resharpen it on my bench grinder, it takes a while but is worth and I can reshapen bit at any time in this same way. for bigger/smaller sizes I'll do as you wrote above. I'm new on this site and sorry for my English as it is not my first language. I like Mafell for their clever solution eg. Erika, DD40, P1cc and so on. I'll be glad to speak with similar minded people.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Apr 6, 2014 16:20:25 GMT -5
Welcome aboard, wish I knew how to sharpen my drill bits. Where are you from
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Post by sylwestercarpenter on Apr 6, 2014 16:23:29 GMT -5
hi I'm from Poland but live and work in london
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