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Post by Tom Gensmer on Jun 30, 2019 10:04:04 GMT -5
Hi Gang! I'm still working on sorting out an ideal tool setup for shop work and light trim work. For framing, I'm using a Diamondback "Artisan" tool belt ( toolbelts.com/product/artisan-journeyman-finish-carpenter/ ), but it's a bit "much" for puttering around in the shop and doing light work on-site. For years I've used a Snickers/Skillers 4294 vest with the custom Snickers/Skiller tool pouches. Overall it works great and I stockpiled a career's worth of backup vests and pouches so I could be set for life, but I'm curious if there's anything I'm overlooking? I also have the Diamondback "Foreman" setup ( toolbelts.com/product/foreman/ ), which works OK but I've found that I really prefer to distribute weight to my shoulders, and it doesn't work great in the Winter when I start to add layers. I have tried the Snickers 4250 ( www.snickersdirect.co.uk/Snickers-4250-ToolVest ), which is their tool vest currently in production. Again, it works "OK", but it just doesn't seem like it's as well made as the 4294, and doesn't seem to work as well with hand tools. I've looked at the Atlas 46 chest rigs/aprons, but really don't like the idea of all of the weight in the front, I prefer the weight and bulk to be to the sides and/or rear. I have a Atlas 46 Saratoga vest and overall I liked it, but it seems better suited to framing tasks, and due to the design you end up storing the pouches and tools more to the front than I'd like. I have tried almost every Occidental belt-less product, and while they're very well made I don't like how high they store the tools. I prefer the tool weight to be bellow my belt line. www.occidentalleather.com/cat.php?cat_ID=4 Here's my basic criteria for a shop/trim carpentry setup: -- I wear Snickers work trousers, which is where I carry a metric/imperial folding ruler, slim flashlight, Pica mechanical pencil, 0.5mm mechanical pencil, small note pad, and a Snickers craftsman's knife. -- For the tool belt/vest/rig, I expect it to carry: -- Dominant side: Utility knife, 4-in-1 screwdriver, and hopefully enough room for side-cutting pliers. Loop for trim hammer or small mallet -- Non-dominant side: tape measure, chisel (in Hultafors sheath), small striking block. Sometimes a adjustable square, "speed square", and/or small pry bar -- Somewhere (don't care where): Some way to carry small drill bits and drivers, small quantities of fasteners (screws, dowels, etc...)
At this point, I think the only stone I haven't turned over is what I think of as the "Euro-style" tool belts, which seem MUCH more streamlined than what we have in North America. I see that Snickers has a pretty streamlined product in the 9770 ( www.snickersdirect.co.uk/snickers-9770-carpenters-toolbelt-snickers-tool-belt-p-90617.html ), and Fristads Kansas has a very similar product.
Overall, are there any major products I've overlooked?
How are the "Euro-style" tool belts, in particular the Snickers 9770-style? Are they pretty compact?
I were to go with the "Euro-style" belts, should I look at the Snickers or the Fristads products?
Is this all just overthinking things, and I should just stick with my venerable Snickers 4294 vests?
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Post by jimbouk on Jun 30, 2019 14:05:34 GMT -5
Tom, I use the diamondback dimani bags with the suspenders. Great bags with plenty of storage. They are perfect for framing /first fix. I am yet to find my ideal solution for second fix /trim work. Possibly the diamond back boss rig might work. I have tried several different vests and other belts and couldn't get along with them. I would like to try the lightweight diamondback mesh vest. Could be good when it's hot. I do like the snickers pants with the big holster pockets. I tend to end up with lots of rubbish in them I dont need though. Maybe another thing where no perfect solution exists...I dont know. Hopefully others have better ideas
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Post by kraftt on Jun 30, 2019 21:07:16 GMT -5
Not a fan of tool belts myself but for light duty stuff I've been considering the (somewhat pretentious) Wheeler Munroe bag in the left photo. I like that it wraps the leg & that it wont swing/sway as much as nylon bags can. Not sure but I think they will customize anything you want (?)
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Post by waltervandervort on Mar 22, 2020 3:16:31 GMT -5
I don't have much knowledge about tool belts. I have a Carhartt Legacy Custom Tool Belt. They have lots of storage bags and which is big enough to carry most of the tools you own while still having enough room for a speed square.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Mar 22, 2020 12:40:39 GMT -5
I don't have much knowledge about tool belts. I have a Carhartt Legacy Custom Tool Belt. They have lots of storage bags and which is big enough to carry most of the tools you own while still having enough room for a speed square. Welcome to the forum! How are the Carhartt bags? Do they wear-in the way the pants do? Sometimes I see my electricians wearing the Duck Nail Apron over their tool belts to store things like wire nuts and other fittings. For the last year or so I was shifting between the Diamondback "Artisan" tool belt (for framing and outdoor work) and the Snickers 4250 tool vest (shop work, trim work). Both setups are well made for their intended purpose, but the Artisan was always a bit "more" than I needed, while the Snickers 4250 didn't have quite enough organization for my tastes. The last month I've been wearing the Diamondback Toolbelts "Maestro" setup on-site, and I can't say enough good things about it toolbelts.com/product/maestro-system/ . I use the Diamondback deluxe suspenders to carry most of the weight, with the belt adjusted pretty loose so it's only picking up weight when I lean over, bend down, or otherwise shift my weight. The pouches are VERY well made, with the only gripe that the "Diamondback Toolbelts" tag stitching sometimes will come loose, but that's 100% cosmetic and doesn't affect the utility of the pouches. The Mazo and Clavo bags are just big enough to carry my essential tools (Olfa 18mm snap knife, 5-in-1 screwdriver, and Klein sidecutters on my right, wood chisel, Stabila torpedo level, and mini-square on my left), with just enough room left over to accommodate an extra tool or two depending on the task at hand. The hammer sleeve is amazing and one of the biggest selling points of the Diamondback bags. It wraps around your hammer so you're less likely to bang/scratch/mar finished surfaces, and since it's held at an angle you're less likely to drag the bottom of the handle on the ground when you crouch. I'm normally a big fan of vests, but many of the current vests on the market don't lend themselves to rapid size changes. This is important to me, since in Minnesota you might spend part of the day bundled up in every article of clothing you own in the morning outdoors at the cut station, then shed down to a t-shirt an hour later to work inside, and it's important to me that I can quickly adjust the vest to suit. Occidental Leather has a decent system on a lot of their belt less setups where you just adjusted a single chest strap, and with the Snickers vests you just fold out a integrated chest panel, though those systems have their own drawbacks. Atlas 46 and Diamondback have released competing vests which I've tried. They're both well made, but I dislike how you have to adjust and corral three straps and buckles on each side of the vest to adjust sizes, which is a deal breaker for me. So, for my current setup I mostly just adjust the belt to accommodate my layer changes (I wear the belt up around my belly to more closely simulate a vest), I rarely find myself adjusting the chest strap. The biggest thing I appreciate about vests is their ability to accommodate my "Office" items, including a mechanical pencil, ballpoint pen, Sharpie, 6" stainless steel ruler, note pad, and Pink Pet eraser. These items generally don't have a good home in traditional tool belt pouches, but vests often have various chest pouches and slots for them. To address this, I've gone back to an old standby, the Occidental Leather 8505 which I clip on the left side of my suspenders. It's not perfect, but it's close enough for now. I'd be interested to look at the Occidental 8578, but I don't like that it has the cell phone pocket, in my opinion it unnecessarily clutters and expands the footprint of what would otherwise be a nice "Office" pouch. I'll see if I can get my wife to snap a pic of my "Maestro" setup sometime. But, yeah, between the "Maestro" setup with Diamondback Deluxe suspenders (the Occidental 1546 would be a suitable alternative) and a chest pouch, this setup covers ~90% of my needs. If I'm building furniture in the Shop or doing VERY light work on-site I'll shift over to a minimalist setup.
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Post by citydecks on Mar 28, 2020 6:49:10 GMT -5
For trim and shop work I wear this apron. Keep the essentials anything else stays I tstak open totes that's fitted with few dividers. Previous to apron and occi framers I had occi trimmer bags for 10-11 yrs they were still on good shape just could not stand the paint caulk glue all over them from doing all Reno work. ....Best ever. For framing general carpentry and what I do most of the the time which is decking. Tbe light framers with there suspenders from fall to spring. Btw the suspenders have finally broken in this winter with it raining 2-3days a week. I literally forget I have them on.
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Post by jimbouk on Mar 29, 2020 5:25:54 GMT -5
I don't have much knowledge about tool belts. I have a Carhartt Legacy Custom Tool Belt. They have lots of storage bags and which is big enough to carry most of the tools you own while still having enough room for a speed square. Welcome to the forum! How are the Carhartt bags? Do they wear-in the way the pants do? Sometimes I see my electricians wearing the Duck Nail Apron over their tool belts to store things like wire nuts and other fittings. For the last year or so I was shifting between the Diamondback "Artisan" tool belt (for framing and outdoor work) and the Snickers 4250 tool vest (shop work, trim work). Both setups are well made for their intended purpose, but the Artisan was always a bit "more" than I needed, while the Snickers 4250 didn't have quite enough organization for my tastes. The last month I've been wearing the Diamondback Toolbelts "Maestro" setup on-site, and I can't say enough good things about it toolbelts.com/product/maestro-system/ . I use the Diamondback deluxe suspenders to carry most of the weight, with the belt adjusted pretty loose so it's only picking up weight when I lean over, bend down, or otherwise shift my weight. The pouches are VERY well made, with the only gripe that the "Diamondback Toolbelts" tag stitching sometimes will come loose, but that's 100% cosmetic and doesn't affect the utility of the pouches. The Mazo and Clavo bags are just big enough to carry my essential tools (Olfa 18mm snap knife, 5-in-1 screwdriver, and Klein sidecutters on my right, wood chisel, Stabila torpedo level, and mini-square on my left), with just enough room left over to accommodate an extra tool or two depending on the task at hand. The hammer sleeve is amazing and one of the biggest selling points of the Diamondback bags. It wraps around your hammer so you're less likely to bang/scratch/mar finished surfaces, and since it's held at an angle you're less likely to drag the bottom of the handle on the ground when you crouch. I'm normally a big fan of vests, but many of the current vests on the market don't lend themselves to rapid size changes. This is important to me, since in Minnesota you might spend part of the day bundled up in every article of clothing you own in the morning outdoors at the cut station, then shed down to a t-shirt an hour later to work inside, and it's important to me that I can quickly adjust the vest to suit. Occidental Leather has a decent system on a lot of their belt less setups where you just adjusted a single chest strap, and with the Snickers vests you just fold out a integrated chest panel, though those systems have their own drawbacks. Atlas 46 and Diamondback have released competing vests which I've tried. They're both well made, but I dislike how you have to adjust and corral three straps and buckles on each side of the vest to adjust sizes, which is a deal breaker for me. So, for my current setup I mostly just adjust the belt to accommodate my layer changes (I wear the belt up around my belly to more closely simulate a vest), I rarely find myself adjusting the chest strap. The biggest thing I appreciate about vests is their ability to accommodate my "Office" items, including a mechanical pencil, ballpoint pen, Sharpie, 6" stainless steel ruler, note pad, and Pink Pet eraser. These items generally don't have a good home in traditional tool belt pouches, but vests often have various chest pouches and slots for them. To address this, I've gone back to an old standby, the Occidental Leather 8505 which I clip on the left side of my suspenders. It's not perfect, but it's close enough for now. I'd be interested to look at the Occidental 8578, but I don't like that it has the cell phone pocket, in my opinion it unnecessarily clutters and expands the footprint of what would otherwise be a nice "Office" pouch. I'll see if I can get my wife to snap a pic of my "Maestro" setup sometime. But, yeah, between the "Maestro" setup with Diamondback Deluxe suspenders (the Occidental 1546 would be a suitable alternative) and a chest pouch, this setup covers ~90% of my needs. If I'm building furniture in the Shop or doing VERY light work on-site I'll shift over to a minimalist setup. Interesting thanks for this Tom, I have been mulling over adding the maestro setup for my trim work. I love the bigger diamondback bags for framing and roofing etc but they get in the way when its time for the finishing jobs. Would be good to see a pic of yours and whats loaded in there.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Mar 29, 2020 16:20:34 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum! How are the Carhartt bags? Do they wear-in the way the pants do? Sometimes I see my electricians wearing the Duck Nail Apron over their tool belts to store things like wire nuts and other fittings. For the last year or so I was shifting between the Diamondback "Artisan" tool belt (for framing and outdoor work) and the Snickers 4250 tool vest (shop work, trim work). Both setups are well made for their intended purpose, but the Artisan was always a bit "more" than I needed, while the Snickers 4250 didn't have quite enough organization for my tastes. The last month I've been wearing the Diamondback Toolbelts "Maestro" setup on-site, and I can't say enough good things about it toolbelts.com/product/maestro-system/ . I use the Diamondback deluxe suspenders to carry most of the weight, with the belt adjusted pretty loose so it's only picking up weight when I lean over, bend down, or otherwise shift my weight. The pouches are VERY well made, with the only gripe that the "Diamondback Toolbelts" tag stitching sometimes will come loose, but that's 100% cosmetic and doesn't affect the utility of the pouches. The Mazo and Clavo bags are just big enough to carry my essential tools (Olfa 18mm snap knife, 5-in-1 screwdriver, and Klein sidecutters on my right, wood chisel, Stabila torpedo level, and mini-square on my left), with just enough room left over to accommodate an extra tool or two depending on the task at hand. The hammer sleeve is amazing and one of the biggest selling points of the Diamondback bags. It wraps around your hammer so you're less likely to bang/scratch/mar finished surfaces, and since it's held at an angle you're less likely to drag the bottom of the handle on the ground when you crouch. I'm normally a big fan of vests, but many of the current vests on the market don't lend themselves to rapid size changes. This is important to me, since in Minnesota you might spend part of the day bundled up in every article of clothing you own in the morning outdoors at the cut station, then shed down to a t-shirt an hour later to work inside, and it's important to me that I can quickly adjust the vest to suit. Occidental Leather has a decent system on a lot of their belt less setups where you just adjusted a single chest strap, and with the Snickers vests you just fold out a integrated chest panel, though those systems have their own drawbacks. Atlas 46 and Diamondback have released competing vests which I've tried. They're both well made, but I dislike how you have to adjust and corral three straps and buckles on each side of the vest to adjust sizes, which is a deal breaker for me. So, for my current setup I mostly just adjust the belt to accommodate my layer changes (I wear the belt up around my belly to more closely simulate a vest), I rarely find myself adjusting the chest strap. The biggest thing I appreciate about vests is their ability to accommodate my "Office" items, including a mechanical pencil, ballpoint pen, Sharpie, 6" stainless steel ruler, note pad, and Pink Pet eraser. These items generally don't have a good home in traditional tool belt pouches, but vests often have various chest pouches and slots for them. To address this, I've gone back to an old standby, the Occidental Leather 8505 which I clip on the left side of my suspenders. It's not perfect, but it's close enough for now. I'd be interested to look at the Occidental 8578, but I don't like that it has the cell phone pocket, in my opinion it unnecessarily clutters and expands the footprint of what would otherwise be a nice "Office" pouch. I'll see if I can get my wife to snap a pic of my "Maestro" setup sometime. But, yeah, between the "Maestro" setup with Diamondback Deluxe suspenders (the Occidental 1546 would be a suitable alternative) and a chest pouch, this setup covers ~90% of my needs. If I'm building furniture in the Shop or doing VERY light work on-site I'll shift over to a minimalist setup. Interesting thanks for this Tom, I have been mulling over adding the maestro setup for my trim work. I love the bigger diamondback bags for framing and roofing etc but they get in the way when its time for the finishing jobs. Would be good to see a pic of yours and whats loaded in there. Send me a PM, I'll have my wife take some pics this week and I'll send them over to you. Diamondback really must have been listening to customers, because the Maestro is pretty close to perfect for trim work and even general remodeling. I've shed the 8505 and now have everything in the bags. All I wish for is some sort of sleeve or pocket for my notepad....
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Post by arvid on Mar 29, 2020 19:02:57 GMT -5
I’m not as old as I am old school. Framing houses for twenty years all I ever used was a hammer loop on my pants belt. Tie on canvas lumber yard nail apron, 8’ lufkin ruler and pencil in my back pocket. And today that’s still all I use. I can break my tasks down to where I dont need every tool on my body all day long.
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Post by kraftt on Mar 29, 2020 20:16:21 GMT -5
I’m not as old as I am old school. Framing houses for twenty years all I ever used was a hammer loop on my pants belt. Tie on canvas lumber yard nail apron, 8’ lufkin ruler and pencil in my back pocket. And today that’s still all I use. I can break my tasks down to where I dont need every tool on my body all day long. Glad to hear someone say this. I would never expect anyone to believe me if I said how fast and efficient you can be without a belt by working a system. Not saying it’s for every situation or everyone, but being uncomfortable in a belt early on eventually bred working just as fast without one whenever possible.
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Post by arvid on Mar 30, 2020 13:07:51 GMT -5
I’m not as old as I am old school. Framing houses for twenty years all I ever used was a hammer loop on my pants belt. Tie on canvas lumber yard nail apron, 8’ lufkin ruler and pencil in my back pocket. And today that’s still all I use. I can break my tasks down to where I dont need every tool on my body all day long. Glad to hear someone say this. I would never expect anyone to believe me if I said how fast and efficient you can be without a belt by working a system. Not saying it’s for every situation or everyone, but being uncomfortable in a belt early on eventually bred working just as fast without one whenever possible. Yeah I never saw the need to have pry bars and cats paws and chalk lines and 100 ft tape measures on my belt adding another 20 lbs on the slim change or the one time I needed them. I see these guys with all this shit on and stuff spilling out of their bags as the climb. Too many old timers before me worked pretty efficient for me to try and reinvent the wheel. Then when I’m inside trimming or settting cabinets the last thing I want to worry about is my nail bag or tool rig running against shit and singing stuff up as I’m carrying around pre hung doors or cabinet boxes.
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Post by juanar on Apr 4, 2020 11:30:05 GMT -5
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Apr 5, 2020 12:52:03 GMT -5
I always loved the idea of working with a super-minimalist setup, "Just a pencil, knife and ruler/tape measure". In practice, I generally try to have a slimmed-down tool belt setup that carries what I might need in a given day, so on the right side it's a hammer, knife, 5-in-1 screwdriver, side-cutting pliers, and a non-contact voltage tester. Left side is a 16' tape measure, wood chisel, and Stabila torpedo. Wearing a tool belt allows me to carry extras when needed (fasteners, chalk box, etc...), what I appreciate about the Diamondback Maestro setup is that the tool belt component is very small. I regularly wear it in finished homes and have never worried about scratching/denting finished surfaces.
I admire the concept of working minimalist, "just a pencil, knife, and ruler", but in my experience working with carpenters who were set up that way, it actually slowed me down significantly, since it felt like I spent a lot of my day loaning tools to them. So, perhaps they were working efficiently, but it was at the expense of my production. I totally admire those who can actually make it work (Arvid and Kraft), but most guys I've seen try it don't implement it very well, and end up mooching on their coworkers....
BTW, welcome to the forum juanar! I agree on the Stabila torpedo, I bought mine something like 18 years ago and it's still going strong.
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Post by kraftt on Apr 5, 2020 13:23:01 GMT -5
I always loved the idea of working with a super-minimalist setup, "Just a pencil, knife and ruler/tape measure". In practice, I generally try to have a slimmed-down tool belt setup that carries what I might need in a given day, so on the right side it's a hammer, knife, 5-in-1 screwdriver, side-cutting pliers, and a non-contact voltage tester. Left side is a 16' tape measure, wood chisel, and Stabila torpedo. Wearing a tool belt allows me to carry extras when needed (fasteners, chalk box, etc...), what I appreciate about the Diamondback Maestro setup is that the tool belt component is very small. I regularly wear it in finished homes and have never worried about scratching/denting finished surfaces. I admire the concept of working minimalist, "just a pencil, knife, and ruler", but in my experience working with carpenters who were set up that way, it actually slowed me down significantly, since it felt like I spent a lot of my day loaning tools to them. So, perhaps they were working efficiently, but it was at the expense of my production. I totally admire those who can actually make it work (Arvid and Kraft), but most guys I've seen try it don't implement it very well, and end up mooching on their coworkers.... BTW, welcome to the forum juanar! I agree on the Stabila torpedo, I bought mine something like 18 years ago and it's still going strong. Being caught out without the tool you want is the cardinal sin. Seeing it on the floor while you just climbed a ladder etc. is a huge fail. Nothing bothers me more so you get good at thinking ahead out of necessity. Though working with anyone who ‘expects’ to borrow a tool since you are close, as if they are a genius for suddenly sourcing a tool and doing you a favor by being in their presence, comes in close. There are more mental gymnastics involved, presence of mind, to make working light work at all. But no different than calculating the fewest trips to unload / load truck, or fewest moves to accomplish each task. It may be a misnomer to say 'working light' since a full tool bag is never far away and always moves within proximity to me.
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Post by arvid on Apr 5, 2020 19:32:33 GMT -5
I always loved the idea of working with a super-minimalist setup, "Just a pencil, knife and ruler/tape measure". In practice, I generally try to have a slimmed-down tool belt setup that carries what I might need in a given day, so on the right side it's a hammer, knife, 5-in-1 screwdriver, side-cutting pliers, and a non-contact voltage tester. Left side is a 16' tape measure, wood chisel, and Stabila torpedo. Wearing a tool belt allows me to carry extras when needed (fasteners, chalk box, etc...), what I appreciate about the Diamondback Maestro setup is that the tool belt component is very small. I regularly wear it in finished homes and have never worried about scratching/denting finished surfaces. I admire the concept of working minimalist, "just a pencil, knife, and ruler", but in my experience working with carpenters who were set up that way, it actually slowed me down significantly, since it felt like I spent a lot of my day loaning tools to them. So, perhaps they were working efficiently, but it was at the expense of my production. I totally admire those who can actually make it work (Arvid and Kraft), but most guys I've seen try it don't implement it very well, and end up mooching on their coworkers.... BTW, welcome to the forum juanar! I agree on the Stabila torpedo, I bought mine something like 18 years ago and it's still going strong. Being caught out without the tool you want is the cardinal sin. Seeing it on the floor while you just climbed a ladder etc. is a huge fail. Nothing bothers me more so you get good at thinking ahead out of necessity. Though working with anyone who ‘expects’ to borrow a tool since you are close, as if they are a genius for suddenly sourcing a tool and doing you a favor by being in their presence, comes in close. There are more mental gymnastics involved, presence of mind, to make working light work at all. But no different than calculating the fewest trips to unload / load truck, or fewest moves to accomplish each task. It may be a misnomer to say 'working light' since a full tool bag is never far away and always moves within proximity to me. Very well said. Especially like the part about fewest trips to unload the work van for the day. Same can be said for cleaning up through out the day. I used to get on my guys for being walking empty handed. If you’re going to fetch lumber and going past the dumpster pick up some scraps on your way and toss them in instead of spending the last hour of the day cleaning up you can sometimes easily cut that to 1/4 the time. Going to reload your pouch with nails or fasters think what else can I accomplish along the way.
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