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Post by mikkomononen on Mar 14, 2019 15:48:54 GMT -5
Hi! I have had weird problems with the cast alu rip fence since I got my Erika 70. To name few: inconsistent measurements, back of the blade scoring the cut, fence not locking in place properly. It has been really hard to find problem since the worst problems occur sometimes, usually when you least expect them. I think finally found the problem. The front dovetail rail of my saw is bowed. It's hard to show in a picture, but if I put a straight edge along the rail, one end has about 0.5mm gap. There's a bump in the middle. It's kinda hockey stick shaped, left is straight and right curved. The result is that the further out the fence is, the more it is tilted towards the blade. 0.5mm over 250mm translates to about 1mm deviation at the back of the blade. This causes the back of the blade to sometimes scratch the cut (while otherwise the cuts look like straight outta planer) and worst case it cuts more than it should. In addition I have had random cases where the fence gives in a lot. It is kinda floppy as it is but I've had cases where one cut to another I have about 1mm differences in width. I such cases you can clearly see the tight right edge of the rip fence that sits in the dovetail slot just slides out when you apply pressure. I think the problem in that case is that the micro adjuster, the left "foot" and tightening knob form a tripod and right foot just hangs in there. I took off the from rail to see what's inside. The middle screw is attached to the grey painted front part and the two screws at sides are attached to the tops. The middle attachment point is protruding about 2mm out of line of the other attachment points. I've seen this type of things in some alu constructions, a little tension makes things more rigid. In my saws case that tension seems too much and bows the rail. The back rail seems ok, and it has about 1mm deviation. I don't know how to fix this, but maybe it will save few grey hairs from someone else. The image above shows the front rail removed and placed on its' side to show the deviation of the center attachment point.
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Post by aas on Mar 15, 2019 2:19:45 GMT -5
This is interesting, I'll have a look at mine, thanks.
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Post by bicycleclip on Mar 15, 2019 4:07:40 GMT -5
Mafell customer service are pretty good at replacement parts. If you use the service.mafell.com/index.php Mafell service catalogue to identify the part number, you can use this with a number of vendors. Miles Tools and Machinery in the UK, Dictum in Germany and possibly Timberwolf in the US, can liaise, you can’t buy direct though.
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Post by mikkomononen on Mar 15, 2019 6:53:26 GMT -5
Mafell customer service are pretty good at replacement parts. If you use the service.mafell.com/index.php Mafell service catalogue to identify the part number, you can use this with a number of vendors. Miles Tools and Machinery in the UK, Dictum in Germany and possibly Timberwolf in the US, can liaise, you can’t buy direct though. Not sure what to replace there. The rail itself bounces back when i detach it. I have tried to contact Mafell, but never heard back. My dealer took a look at the saw when i noticed the problems (before i realised the front rail), and said that all is fine (was not) and refuses to give any more help. I'm currently building diy replacement fence and rails. I'll post it here when i get it working.
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Post by bicycleclip on Mar 15, 2019 11:36:10 GMT -5
If you follow from the link by typing in Erika 70 to the search bar you're taken to the schematic diagrams (they call 'hotspot viewer') that describe the part when you hover over it, so you may be talking about the following
202662 Front ledge (the dovetail that attaches to the table) 055079 Cylindrical oval head screw (the central screw it attaches with) 202644 Front plate (the dark grey front face of the Erika where you have the controls and power switch) I wonder if the amount of tension you've got in the front plate/table interface is really by design or just a fluke quality issue. I haven't experienced it with my Erika rip fence. Most of the time I simply use the rip fence and an extension fence with a clamp, and by clamping it I can remove any deflection.
I've not seen any deflection in the front dovetail or rear. A lot of the time I've got table extension bars in place on my front and back dovetail as well and this doesn't transmit any deflection from the front dovetail either. You'd notice it when you slide the extension bar on because the tolerance is pretty tight. Have you tried using a table extension bar on yours to see whether it moves freely?
Who was the dealer that sent you on your way - where are you based?
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Post by mikkomononen on Mar 16, 2019 10:19:04 GMT -5
Thanks for looking up the parts numbers.
I was a little unclear with my "Not sure what to replace there" comment. What I meant was that I'd like to know for sure that the protrusion is the cause and that a new part can fix it. It seems to me like pretty big operation (all the rails and everything is connected to the front piece). I've tried to contact Mafell on this issue but they did not get back to me. At this point I'm too pissed off to try harder on getting in touch with them.
I'm based in Finland and got my saw from JE-Nettiverstas. They have been really nice dealer up until now. I guess I'm also a bit spoiled by the Festool service we have here.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Mar 16, 2019 20:13:33 GMT -5
Something to keep in mind with the Erika saws is that the blade is skewed VERY slightly clockwise, by approximately 0.2mm from the front of the blade to the rear of the blade.
If/when you resolve your other issues, please keep this in mind when you go to align things. When using my rip fence, I use a sub-fence, and skew it by 0.4mm. This accounts for the blade skew, and toes the blade in to the rip fence very slightly so I don't get burning on the back side.
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Post by mikkomononen on Mar 17, 2019 0:22:38 GMT -5
Something to keep in mind with the Erika saws is that the blade is skewed VERY slightly clockwise, by approximately 0.2mm from the front of the blade to the rear of the blade. If/when you resolve your other issues, please keep this in mind when you go to align things. When using my rip fence, I use a sub-fence, and skew it by 0.4mm. This accounts for the blade skew, and toes the blade in to the rip fence very slightly so I don't get burning on the back side. Yeah, I found this out when talking to the dealer when I sent the saw for check up. I find it odd that it is not explained in the manual, even if it seems like quite common question. I certainly makes sense for the pull saw action. I aligned my new fence (see other recent post by me) to the blade.
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Post by aas on Mar 17, 2019 2:32:45 GMT -5
Something to keep in mind with the Erika saws is that the blade is skewed VERY slightly clockwise, by approximately 0.2mm from the front of the blade to the rear of the blade. If/when you resolve your other issues, please keep this in mind when you go to align things. When using my rip fence, I use a sub-fence, and skew it by 0.4mm. This accounts for the blade skew, and toes the blade in to the rip fence very slightly so I don't get burning on the back side. Mmm... interesting. So it is set up to be used with the sliding fence, MFA etc... which are both used to the right of the blade. Does this explain why the micro-fence doesn't seem to line up properly?.. maybe it's been made to have the 0.4mm skew so the blade is toeing in when cutting to the left of the blade. I need to have a good look at this.
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Post by mikkomononen on Mar 17, 2019 3:16:44 GMT -5
Something to keep in mind with the Erika saws is that the blade is skewed VERY slightly clockwise, by approximately 0.2mm from the front of the blade to the rear of the blade. If/when you resolve your other issues, please keep this in mind when you go to align things. When using my rip fence, I use a sub-fence, and skew it by 0.4mm. This accounts for the blade skew, and toes the blade in to the rip fence very slightly so I don't get burning on the back side. Mmm... interesting. So it is set up to be used with the sliding fence, MFA etc... which are both used to the right of the blade. Does this explain why the micro-fence doesn't seem to line up properly?.. maybe it's been made to have the 0.4mm skew so the blade is toeing in when cutting to the left of the blade. I need to have a good look at this. On my saw the front of the blade is skewed towards left. Which makes sense for cross cutting, but not for ripping. I have not checked if the rip fence is actually square or if it compensates for the skew (it might).
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Post by aas on Mar 17, 2019 5:38:46 GMT -5
On my saw the front of the blade is skewed towards left. I think this is what Tom meant by skewed clockwise (looking from above), i.e. the front of the blade to the left.
It would make sense if ripping was also to the left of the blade, but the Mafell micro adjust fence can be used to the left.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Mar 17, 2019 17:19:51 GMT -5
On my saw the front of the blade is skewed towards left. I think this is what Tom meant by skewed clockwise (looking from above), i.e. the front of the blade to the left.
It would make sense if ripping was also to the left of the blade, but the Mafell micro adjust fence can be used to the left.
Correct, the blade is skewed so the front teeth are VERY slightly to the left of the rear teeth. I assume this is because most crosscutting operations are performed on the left side. I've modified my rip fence to account for this blade skew, but I've learned to make most of my quickie rip cuts on the left side of the blade. The Erika is a very handy saw and I don't know what I'd do without it. That being said, it is a rather quirky saw and can take some time to really get to know all of its idiosyncrasies.
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Post by aas on Mar 19, 2019 14:33:24 GMT -5
I've had a look, I've got a pregnant front rail too... a bump in the middle!
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Post by naildrivingman on Mar 19, 2019 21:28:09 GMT -5
I think this is what Tom meant by skewed clockwise (looking from above), i.e. the front of the blade to the left.
It would make sense if ripping was also to the left of the blade, but the Mafell micro adjust fence can be used to the left.
Correct, the blade is skewed so the front teeth are VERY slightly to the left of the rear teeth. I assume this is because most crosscutting operations are performed on the left side. I've modified my rip fence to account for this blade skew, but I've learned to make most of my quickie rip cuts on the left side of the blade. The Erika is a very handy saw and I don't know what I'd do without it. That being said, it is a rather quirky saw and can take some time to really get to know all of its idiosyncrasies. Hey Tom, Are you not using your cast rip fence much anymore? If you’re ripping primarily on the left, are you using the MFA with the fence extension? If so, are you using the hold down clamp at the outfeed end? I haven’t used the MFA for ripping at all, but the cast fence seems to need the holdown clamp all the time. I have adjusted my cast fence as you showed me and indicated in your post. I agree it can be a quirky tool, but I’ve done some things with it that I couldn’t do with other tools. Thanks! Chris
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Mar 19, 2019 22:14:44 GMT -5
Correct, the blade is skewed so the front teeth are VERY slightly to the left of the rear teeth. I assume this is because most crosscutting operations are performed on the left side. I've modified my rip fence to account for this blade skew, but I've learned to make most of my quickie rip cuts on the left side of the blade. The Erika is a very handy saw and I don't know what I'd do without it. That being said, it is a rather quirky saw and can take some time to really get to know all of its idiosyncrasies. Hey Tom, Are you not using your cast rip fence much anymore? If you’re ripping primarily on the left, are you using the MFA with the fence extension? If so, are you using the hold down clamp at the outfeed end? I haven’t used the MFA for ripping at all, but the cast fence seems to need the holdown clamp all the time. I have adjusted my cast fence as you showed me and indicated in your post. I agree it can be a quirky tool, but I’ve done some things with it that I couldn’t do with other tools. Thanks! Chris Hi Chris, good to hear from you! Yeah, so if I’m regularly switching between ripping and crosscutting operations, I’ve found it’s frequently easier for me to simply use the MFA fence for both. That being said, I am most comfortable ripping on the right side of the blade, so if I have a lot of repetitive rips I’ll use the cast rip fence, with either a short sub-fence for ripping solid lumber, or a 1m fence clamped at the far end for ripping plywood.
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