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Post by MrToolJunkie on Aug 11, 2016 23:39:12 GMT -5
Now that the HK55 is making its way to North America, I wonder how this will compare to the Mafell KSS 400? It seems like a pretty capable machine. I played around with the saw at the Roadshow a month or so ago (not cutting) and it felt balanced and not heavy. Anyone have one or thought verses Mafell? I have been really thinking about adding a smaller saw to my arsenal to complement my KSS80. I have thinking about the KSS60 or the KSS300. I might opt for cordless, but the bulk of my work is in the shop and so power is not an issue and with lots of ripping I think that a power cord is a better option.
I love my 80 and love Mafell, but the HK is half the cost. So, any other thoughts one way or the other on what saw and why? I have a complete collection of guide rails from both manufacturers so that is a non-issue for going with either saw.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
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Post by jonathan on Aug 12, 2016 4:31:23 GMT -5
I think Festool has seriously cut the legs out from under Mafell recently by coming out with their KSS saws and bringing over the timber framing saws from the ProTool range.
For anyone who already owns a tool that works with the Festool or Makita rails I don't see a compelling reason to buy Mafell anymore, unless they want higher quality tools. I'm still convinced Mafell build quality is better than Festool, but at the pricepoint Festool now sells...
I also love the fact that Festool decided to only use 18v batteries and they only have 1 KSS rail width. The sytem integration is simply much better, even if performance is lesser compared to the 36v Bosch batteries Mafell uses. I also hate that the KSS80 has it's own rail, why isn't the baseplate compatible with the KSS rail that all the other saw use? I don't get it Mafell...
/end rant
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Post by rizzoa13 on Aug 12, 2016 5:18:43 GMT -5
I'm on the other side of the fence with the hk55. To me it looks just like a ts55 in weight and power and I find that saw severely underpowered for anything but sheet goods.
That price is very enticing but I've already had too many festool failures to invest in a cutting tool from them when mafell makes saws that you KNOW are going to last. Wouldn't touch that even if I had a large array of festool 18v batteries (which I dont because they are also all garbage).
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Post by holmz on Aug 12, 2016 6:33:16 GMT -5
The recent FT post about a TS55 sniping the wood at the of a miter and the dance of tightening the angle bolts "just so" kind of points to a tool that is not as solid.
There is some benefit in having a tool that works perfectly. I am not sure what the $ value one places on that. If I was buying Mafell at the higher US prices and the FT were at the lower US prices it gets harder. As they are much closer here, I just pay the extra 50-100 €. (Plus I have no FT rails)
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Post by Eoj on Aug 12, 2016 7:02:24 GMT -5
The kss 400 wold be a better choice in my mind for a lighter weight alternative to the kss 80 . The 400 has plenty of power for its size ,the controls for depth and bevel are setup better than the festool ,'for my use' .
The hk55 has the bevel control on the rear of the saw ,the blade height adjustment has way to much surface area to cause friction with out constant cleaning if working outdoors in the weather .The front pivot for the saw to move in height adjustment will get packed with sawdust in no time without dust extraction . I did go to the roadshow and looked at the saw for comparsion .
Good luck to Festool !!!!! at the price point including a systainer they are selling the hk55 at , will probably be a service center night mare .
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Post by rizzoa13 on Aug 12, 2016 9:07:59 GMT -5
They just need to make it out of their 3 year warranty and then they can tell everyone to piss off like they did with me and all the other kapex owners with burnt out motors!
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Aug 12, 2016 9:42:00 GMT -5
I can't comment on the festool performance as I haven't used. To me it slightly comes down to what rail system you're using and are you happy with it. Next is the type of work and location, and finally the types of cuts be it cross cuts, rips, or compound cuts and the thickness of material.
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Post by GhostFist on Aug 12, 2016 16:39:09 GMT -5
I actually think mafell phasing out the 400 in replacement for the 60 is an improvement in performance. I can't comment on the hk's as I've never used or seen one in person but have my doubts as to the capabilities of an 18v saw of this size in regards to framing. Speaking of framing, I've seen to have done an incredible amount of it with my kss40 recently, including rafters. 18v in this size range is incredibly adaptable. I still prefer the mafell rail system and build quality as a whole, but I have some festool items that are equally impressive. time will tell on the hk's.
If the question is whether or not to buy a 300 or a 40, my suggestion is a 40. It being cordless and it's blade break is a huge improvement for this saw and makes it that much more attractive. You will be very surprised by what you can achieve off a single battery. Best in class for portability and usability hands down.
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Post by Eoj on Aug 12, 2016 21:46:18 GMT -5
I think Festool has seriously cut the legs out from under Mafell recently by coming out with their KSS saws and bringing over the timber framing saws from the ProTool range. For anyone who already owns a tool that works with the Festool or Makita rails I don't see a compelling reason to buy Mafell anymore, unless they want higher quality tools. I'm still convinced Mafell build quality is better than Festool, but at the pricepoint Festool now sells... I also love the fact that Festool decided to only use 18v batteries and they only have 1 KSS rail width. The sytem integration is simply much better, even if performance is lesser compared to the 36v Bosch batteries Mafell uses. I also hate that the KSS80 has it's own rail, why isn't the baseplate compatible with the KSS rail that all the other saw use? Idon't get it Mafell... /end rant Hey jonathan ,the kss 80 needs the wider rail because of the large motor . The typical use of the kss rails are the saw in right hand and the left palm pushing down on the rail . A Axeminster you tube video shows the hk85 at full depth on the FSK rail being used , guess what? Phil had to use his thumb only to clear the motor hanging over the FSK rail . Small detail to compromise on .
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Post by jonathan on Aug 13, 2016 4:44:14 GMT -5
Eoj, thanks for the reply. That actually makes sense. But I still think it's annoying there's more than 1 KSS rail. Unless I'm mistaken the other saws won't fit on the KSS80's rail due to the difference in width of the baseplates of the saws?
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Post by GhostFist on Aug 13, 2016 7:12:06 GMT -5
The 300 won't work on the 400 either. 300 and 40 will because they're essentially the same saw. Don't know about what else is compatible
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Post by Eoj on Aug 13, 2016 8:37:01 GMT -5
Will check the rails on Monday , tool trailer is on jobsite .
Mrtooljunkie ,have we gone off topic enough?..... Mafell has 25 years of refinement to the KSS rail saws ,the price of their saws certainly reflects the R&D cost payback .The choice between the smaller KSS saws to the 80 you now use is tough . The 400 is a dam good middle class saw for frame and exterior finish . Am waiting until fall to see if Mafell is updating the corded 300 before purchasing , these saws are slowly replacing a miter saw and table saw for frame to exterior finish for my workflow .
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Post by GhostFist on Aug 13, 2016 9:05:57 GMT -5
An upgrade to the 300 that would include the blade break is what's needed. Owning both the 300 (it has arisen from the grave!!!) and the 40. I prefer the 40. Plenty of power, increased portability, and motor protection so you don't beat it to death like I thought I did with the 300. Going back to the HK saws, I'd really have to handle them to comment, and I haven't so can't and wont. I'll check em out when they're at the local dealer but If I go for a larger sized kss I'm looking at the 60 or 80 just because they seem to have the right feature tweaks for me. You I know are looking to go smaller, all I can comment on from mafell's line is the mt55, or the kss 300 or 40. All of which I own and use regularly.
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Post by aas on Aug 13, 2016 9:31:00 GMT -5
I have the HKC55, and it is an awesome saw. I started buying a fair bit of Festool before I knew about Mafell, and I regret a lot of the Festool purchases, including the TS55 which was promptly sold, to be replaced soon by an MT55. However, despite being hugely disappointed with a lot of my Festool gear, and having sold over half of it after less than one year - I can not knock the HKC55. It is without doubt the best cordless circular saw I have had ever owned - and I'll be selling it soon!.. why?.. Festool's battery platform, I've had enough and giving up on Festool cordless, will be replacing the HKC55 with a KSS40 pure to use with my new Metabo LiHD batterys.
I have used the HKC55 with the FSK250 rail, very well balanced, cuts easily upto the max depth of cut, even with wettish timber. I have also cut 100mm x 100mm posts by cutting around three sides - good clean cut, no binding. The HKC55 works very well on the normal Festool FS tracks, even with the wider TS blades fitted. Works well doing plunge cuts too, not as clean as a proper plunge saw.
Only real disappointment was that Festool did not see fit to include the dust bag - not great for a company who shout about a clean dust free environment.
If you're looking for a 'one saw fits all', the HK saws, with an FSK track and an FS track will cover most bases - and for less than the price of a Mafell.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Aug 13, 2016 13:36:23 GMT -5
Thanks, guys. Good points all around. I am not sure about cordless - love the blade brake of the 40, but I am in a shop 90 percent of the time and cordless is less of an appeal - although not dealing with hoses and cords could be a plus in some instances and maybe if I were cordless I would work outdoors more. Hmm.
aas - interesting that you like the HKC and are opting for Mafell - is it because you need cordless?
My only two minor annoyances with the KSS80 after almost two years of use is the lateral slop in the F rail - not a huge deal on rips as you can press one side, but plunging is not the best. It is not a huge deal, but one of the little niggling things about the saw. The other thing I wish were better is the stop - you can set it, but it only starts to catch at 25mm or 19mm on the rail and so shallower grooves cannot be preset easily. I see the 60 allows for 2mm minimum. I actually use the saw for dados sometimes and having the depth stop is nice. I have thought about adding a small block of wood and velcro or something to make up the gap and allow for shallower cuts. But I find 10mm or 12mm depths common. Again, a small annoyance and you can get accurate results just using the lever and scale, I just like stops for repeat-ability and not having to think about it.
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