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Post by holmz on Jan 19, 2016 11:19:54 GMT -5
Q2) Is the combination of TF and sticks just cheaper, or is there some advantage one way or the other? Like can one use better insulation with TF and wider panels or are closer spaced beams required for the insulation to stay put?
Q3) How thick and what R value is that Roxal insulation? What would one use on an all TF?
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Post by jimbouk on Jan 19, 2016 15:00:42 GMT -5
We're building a new home that's a blend of stick and timber framing. The interior picture is of the living room ceiling. Great thread, love it. Really interesting. I enjoy seeing how things are done over there and also the scenery which looks fantastic, just the kind of environment for me.
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Post by jimbouk on Jan 19, 2016 15:11:32 GMT -5
Wow that arunda is some bit of kit with prices to go with it! Would be great to see your home made version....are you using the arunda cutter. Need a big boy router for that.
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Post by jasonkehl on Jan 19, 2016 18:35:20 GMT -5
The designer that I work with tries to keep the costs down by reserving the timber work for the areas where it will make the most visual impact. Typically this is in the roof framing with some key timber accents in other areas. There is always a timber framed screened porch and also a timber covered entry.
We use standard stud wall framing as its cheaper than using timbers with SIPs (structural insulated panels). I've never done an all timber frame build or used SIPs before so I'm trusting the designer when he says that they would be more expensive than standard stud walls. I expect that he is correct in this or I would look into SIPs. My background is standard framing, I've been incorporating timber framing for only the last 5 years.
The Roxul is 1.5" thick with an R-value of 6. We put R 24 fibreglass batt insulation in the walls.
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Post by jasonkehl on Jan 19, 2016 18:39:19 GMT -5
I made this simple jig and I use a Festool 2200 router with a 3/4" cutter. I don't really need this big of a router as most of the waste is drilled out before I start routing. Attachments:
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Post by holmz on Jan 19, 2016 18:42:21 GMT -5
Q4) Cheaper how? Is the wood cheaper, or is most of it in labour costs?
Q5) I suppose I should work with a designer... I am thinking a retirement haus, and TF. Maybe over a basement with a floating concrete floor so almost like a slab. Thoghts?
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Post by jasonkehl on Jan 19, 2016 19:29:49 GMT -5
I haven't priced the SIPs so I don't know for sure about the material costs and because I've never worked with them I can't say for certain about the labour to install them compared with standard framing. From what I've heard they are more expensive on both counts but have the potential to be very energy efficient when done properly because there is no thermal bridging like there is with stud walls.
I know the electrical is much easier (therefore cheaper) with standard wall framing.
In regards to foundation style it really depends on what the ground is like where you're building and if you want a basement. I've done many different foundation types over the years, it really depends on the individual situation and personal preferences. I like a basement, especially if there is enough slope to the lot to have one side a walk-out for more windows and natural light. Pouring the concrete on bedrock eliminates the possibility of settling although a footing or slab foundation works just fine if done properly.
A good designer is a valuable asset to any project and a bad designer can be an expensive nightmare...
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Post by jimbouk on Jan 20, 2016 1:15:30 GMT -5
I made this simple jig and I use a Festool 2200 router with a 3/4" cutter. I don't really need this big of a router as most of the waste is drilled out before I start routing. I see! So your not using a dove tail cutter just slotting the beam straight into the mortise.
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Post by jasonkehl on Jan 20, 2016 7:54:48 GMT -5
Your correct on the absence of a dovetail cutter.
I cut a shoulder around the joist and insert that into the beam pocket. This is so that when the joist shrinks the shoulder hides the gap. This method also allows for a less-than-perfect beam pocket. If the joist didn't have the shoulder then the beam pocket would have to be perfect or it wouldn't look nice. We drive GRK RSS structural screws from the top of the beam on an angle down into the joist to keep the joints together. The screws can't be seen. I use the same procedure for attaching purlins to rafters.
All of my timbers (red pine) come rough sawn and green. We plane them smooth, but they are not perfectly square or perfectly consistent in size. We need to make the joints as nice as possible and do this efficiently to keep the project costs in check.
What concerns me about the Arunda dovetail jig is that when the joist shrinks the dovetail will no longer be tight enough to prevent the joint from pulling apart. If another method needs to be used to keep the joint secure (like a GRK), then I see no point to purchasing the Arunda. I could very well be missing something in this though...
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Post by jimbouk on Jan 20, 2016 8:00:14 GMT -5
Like it, makes sense, thanks for the reply!
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Post by jasonkehl on Jan 20, 2016 8:31:10 GMT -5
No problem Jim, I'm happy to share.
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New build
Jan 20, 2016 12:20:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by GhostFist on Jan 20, 2016 12:20:31 GMT -5
Would your beam not also shrink tightening the dovetail? I'm no timber framer mind you.
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Post by jasonkehl on Jan 20, 2016 18:34:04 GMT -5
The beam will also shrink but that will contribute to the loosening of the joint. The shrinkage happens over the width of the timbers (very little over the length) so both parts of the joint essentially pull away from each other as they shrink. I've read that if the joint is properly wedged the pressure created by the wedges will compensate for the shrinkage. I've never tried it so I don't know how well it works. I don't believe that the Arunda jig is designed to allow space for wedges to be inserted, although I'm not sure on this. I've attached a picture of a drawing from a book I own by Steve Chappell "A Timber Framer's Workshop". It's a great book. Attachments:
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Post by jasonkehl on Jan 20, 2016 18:36:11 GMT -5
We installed some more ceiling pine on the timbers and we're ready to put up trusses. Attachments:
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Post by holmz on Jan 20, 2016 23:24:18 GMT -5
Is the wood always TF green? Any dried wood would likely be shrinkage factored to size.
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