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Post by thehandyman on Aug 19, 2018 0:21:34 GMT -5
Shame you didn't have a tiny Hitachi 6,0ah to put in that photo, a lot of punch for the size... I didn't realise those DeWalt flex batteries were so big!.. do they come with a built in handle and wheels? :-) Those Hitachi 6.0ah are 18650 cells where the Metabo is 21700 cells. A lot bigger battery cells that really improve performance and runtime under loads.
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Post by henrun on Aug 21, 2018 2:12:11 GMT -5
I think at 7 or 8 Ah we are at the point (or even passing the point) for most hand held tools where bigger is no longer better but more of a nuisance for weight and charging times. I think I would settle for 8ah as "tops" for me as I find the 5,5 already get me very far. I am not that keen on dual battery machines such as mitre saws and table saws though I hope that eventually that will mature into products that don't require a minimum of four batteries and two charges per large machine... For vacs, mitre saws and table saws I would velcome a corded/cordless hybrid which I think we will see more of in the future. I do think Hitachi is going to release that by the end of the year with their Multivolt platform where they will actually offer an adapter for the 10" mitre and a table saw and the 36V batteries are compatible with the entire slide 18V range. I am keeping an eye on the Multivolt development for sure. I am not a big fan of DeWalt but props are due. Same for Milwaukee - the repair shops seem to be choc full of the Milwaukee drills (word straight from the repair shop) but still I applaud the direction many of the top brands are going. I will get to meet with two Mafell reps in a month's time from now, will start a thread on it and will collect a few wants and wishes if you would like me to.
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Post by antihero on Aug 21, 2018 9:28:17 GMT -5
Haven't really done much research, but I have a theory... seems like the 5.5 batteries are physically the same as the 8.0 ones, same number of cells and probably same weight? Maybe they test all cells beforehand and cherry pick the best ones for the 4.0 and 8.0 batteries where they push capacity to the limits, meanwhile the crappier cells go into the "5.5" batteries and are intentionally limited to this capacity due to the worse cells.
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Post by henrun on Aug 21, 2018 9:44:58 GMT -5
Hmm, I don't think they are the same cells, the 5,5 LiHD have been out for some time by now and. Huntsgemein on the Forum is more read into the subject but I think the 4 and 8 Ah have another type of cells, 10% larger in diameter - possibly from another manufacturer too.
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Post by aas on Aug 21, 2018 10:37:00 GMT -5
I am not that keen on dual battery machines ... I'm pretty keen on dual battery machines... it gives me access to more powerful tools without needing another set of batteries and another charger!
That being said, I prefer a single 18v if it is powerful enough, but don't want to be getting 36v machines, batts and chargers.
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Post by henrun on Aug 22, 2018 14:23:54 GMT -5
Aas: yes, I agree. I would say the same should I be a heavy user of larger mitre saws or in the need of a battery powered table saw.
I've said it before but I think the HiKoki/Hitachi Multivolt approach is brilliant, backwards compatibility with the 18V range with great runtime and great performance on the single battery 36V machines. This does not prevent them from making a dual battery 36V machine in the future.
If they make good on the promise of an ac adapter to run some of the 36V tools corded too I think it is a game changer and that would make me bite on a 10" mitre saw (which is coming) and if they make that little 165mm blade size 18V sliding mitre saw available in Multivolt/36V and with corded option. I would happily sell all my other four mitre saws and never look back.
I would of course rather Metabo did this. Mafell peeps aren't going to make a mitre saw me thinks.
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Post by henrun on Aug 22, 2018 14:38:03 GMT -5
Shame you didn't have a tiny Hitachi 6,0ah to put in that photo, a lot of punch for the size... I didn't realise those DeWalt flex batteries were so big!.. do they come with a built in handle and wheels? :-) Those Hitachi 6.0ah are 18650 cells where the Metabo is 21700 cells. A lot bigger battery cells that really improve performance and runtime under loads. The Multivolt batteries seem to be another type of cells, they haven't disclosed that information yet. I would not be surprised if they have chosen to switch them out and keep up with the competition.
Looking at Hitachis new Multivolt hammer drills they seem to have the DNA of Metabo drills in them for sure. I have run the latest Metabo 18V and a newer Hitachi 18V hammer drill and they are very similar though Metabo offers the Futuro quick change chucks on theirs. The new Hitachi Multivolt does offer a new lighter and shorter hammer drill in 36V with a similar quick change chuck too so there seems to be some cross breeding at last. The new triple hammer 36V Hikoki seems great though I think the 18V is already good enough. Good thing about going Multivolt is you can still buy 18V tools and use the batteries to great effect.
What HiKoki needs is to put their great compact circ saws on a track system, make some Centrotec-esque 18/36V type of drill so I can have the last decade of my working life in ergonomic bliss and while they are at it get me a barrel grip jig saw while you are at it.
Metabo is unfortunately not in the same position to go "UniVolt" as they would have to kill off their 36V Bosch based system or perhaps make an adapter for older tools should they decide to go 18 to 36V UniBrow on the existing 18V mount (though the 18V batt's would not fit the 36V tools).
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