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Post by Knight Woodworks on Dec 20, 2014 16:46:18 GMT -5
Thought I'd bump this...
Starrett rules and squares. The 6" steel rule is a must have.
Lee Valley stainless steel carpenter's square - A framing squares that is actually square. I've had mine for at least 15 years and it still looks new.
Stabilia spirit levels - I own a couple of laser levels, wouldn't want to be without them, but there times when a bubble stick can't be beat. Clam Clamps- If you regularly miter casing you owe it to yourself to give these a try.
Universal Bar Clamps - These aluminum bar clamps are great. Light in weight with serious clamping pressure they're especially nice if you need to be mobile.
Lie Nielsen - Block and bench planes
Lee Valley - Joinery planes
Bad Ax back saws
Vesper bevel squares - No one needs an expensive bevel square but I love mine, last years Christmas gift to myself.
Williams & Hussey molder - This masterpiece of molding machinery allows you to produce both straight and curved custom molding with a machine not much bigger than your average lunchbox sized planner.
These last two aren't so much specific tools...
Pocket hole jig - you gotta have one
Line boring machine - I've got two plunge router jigs and two Vix style drill bit jigs, they're ok but if you've got the space for it nothing beats a real line boring machine. Even the entry level machines are much better than any jig I've seen.
John
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Post by 7 on Dec 22, 2014 0:27:35 GMT -5
I have recently been looking at the clam clamps. I'll have to decide yay or nay. I also like Stabila levels. I doubt this one relates very much to this forum but I have really liked this tool bag: Ideal Industries- Tuff Tote. It is only 8" square but holds a lot of tools and is easy to keep organized. When I unload it I am always a bit surprised by how big the pile of tools is that fits in there.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Dec 22, 2014 2:28:46 GMT -5
Relates perfectly really nice
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 22, 2014 9:41:51 GMT -5
I have recently been looking at the clam clamps. I'll have to decide yay or nay. I also like Stabila levels. I doubt this one relates very much to this forum but I have really liked this tool bag: Ideal Industries- Tuff Tote. It is only 8" square but holds a lot of tools and is easy to keep organized. When I unload it I am always a bit surprised by how big the pile of tools is that fits in there. Very nice! This case looks similar to the Occidental Stronghold 5585 tote. www.bestbelt.com/product.php?sku=5585&type=It strikes me that this style of tote would fit in a Systainer 5 nicely for transport.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 22, 2014 11:13:49 GMT -5
One tool I've been VERY pleased with recently is the Edge Pocket, from the Collins Tool Company. Collins sent a sample unit to me while we were discussing the P1cc Coping Foot. www.collinstool.com/base.php?page=edge_pocket.htmPrior to using the Edge Pocket, I had been using Domino tenons and Collins spring clamps for assembling my casings. The Domino was great because it indexed all of the casing and generally made for a strong joint. My primary gripe with that system was it was somewhat labor intensive to mortis all of the holes (8 per window, 4 per door), and while the Collins Spring clamps did a great job of applying pressure, it still took awhile for the glue to set, and you had to leave the clamps on until the glue was fully set. The Edge Pocket is essentially a pocket hole jig that is optimized for joining casing. While it can be adjusted for a variety of mitered angles, I've only used it for 90 degree miters thus far. For standard window and door casings, you simply drill a pocket in the head casing, glue the end grain and clamp the adjoining leg to a flat surface next to the head casing, and drive a standard 1.25" Kreg screw into the pocket. Under this pressure the glue sets in minutes, plus the joints are permanently screwed together. The kits comes with the guide assembly, two spring clamps, driver bit, drill bit, and a bit to drill plugs, should you need them. I adapted the kit work with my C15 Centrotec chuck, by using the Snappy 6" #2 square drive Centrotec driver bit, and using a Snappy 3/8" drill adapter to hold the drill bit. Overall I've been really happy with the setup. Roughly the same cost as a set of Clam Clamps, with the bonus that the joint is permanently fastened. Yes, there are pocket holes in the head casing, but they are generally not visible, and can always be plugged.
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Dec 22, 2014 16:04:27 GMT -5
7 - I've got 8 of the clam clamps, they paid for themselves pretty quick. If you haven't already, be sure to check out tips and techniques on the website. No idea how they compare to the Edge Pocket.
Tom - I've been curious about the Edge Pocket, glad you've got some first hand experience with it. Have you used it with casing that had to be back cut to deal with a lumpy wall/jamb interface? You wouldn't be able to clamp it to a flat surface since it's not coplanar, I suppose you could shim the joint up off the table?
John
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 22, 2014 18:22:35 GMT -5
7 - I've got 8 of the clam clamps, they paid for themselves pretty quick. If you haven't already, be sure to check out tips and techniques on the website. No idea how they compare to the Edge Pocket. Tom - I've been curious about the Edge Pocket, glad you've got some first hand experience with it. Have you used it with casing that had to be back cut to deal with a lumpy wall/jamb interface? You wouldn't be able to clamp it to a flat surface since it's not coplanar, I suppose you could shim the joint up off the table? John Hi John! Great question. So, I used to back cut my casing and go through all sorts of acrobatics to make my trim conform to existing conditions. Since I started preassembling my casings, I've taken to removing any plaster or drywall that is proud of the jamb (or installing extension jambs when necessary), and/or planing down the jambs to match the wall thickness. It certainly adds some time on the front end, but I feel like it results in a better long term solution, and allows me to more rapidly measure, cut and assemble my casing assemblies. I'm certainly not saying this is the "Correct" way t do it, but it seems to work well for me and the way I work. Do the Clam Clamps work well for back beveled casing applications?
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Post by 7 on Dec 23, 2014 1:28:56 GMT -5
I looked at the edge pocket while I was on the Collins site ordering the coping foot. Looks interesting. For my own needs I think I would only use either option for sort of "special" stain grade situations. I have never had any problems getting miters to sit really tight with just glue then nailing the casings to the wall and door jamb. I do commonly employ Tom's method of removing any drywall that sits proud of the jamb or has irregular drywall mud etc but in new construction can just quickly smash the drywall out of the way with a hammer.
A couple quick questions for John & Tom:
Clam Clamps: When I looked a while back at the clam clamps it looked like it has small pins or nail things on the side to keep it from sliding. I assume these dig into the work piece a little bit and need to be spackled or wood filled, am I correct?
Edge Pocket: I doubt most of us prefer MDF but just wondering if the edge pocket works with either regular MDF or finger jointed pine casings? I would mainly see myself using either option for solid wood picture frames etc but just curious.
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 23, 2014 17:47:57 GMT -5
I looked at the edge pocket while I was on the Collins site ordering the coping foot. Looks interesting. For my own needs I think I would only use either option for sort of "special" stain grade situations. I have never had any problems getting miters to sit really tight with just glue then nailing the casings to the wall and door jamb. I do commonly employ Tom's method of removing any drywall that sits proud of the jamb or has irregular drywall mud etc but in new construction can just quickly smash the drywall out of the way with a hammer. A couple quick questions for John & Tom: Clam Clamps: When I looked a while back at the clam clamps it looked like it has small pins or nail things on the side to keep it from sliding. I assume these dig into the work piece a little bit and need to be spackled or wood filled, am I correct? Edge Pocket: I doubt most of us prefer MDF but just wondering if the edge pocket works with either regular MDF or finger jointed pine casings? I would mainly see myself using either option for solid wood picture frames etc but just curious. Hi 7! So, the Edge Pocket should work for just about any type of material, though you may want to adjust what type of screw you are using. For instance, in hardwoods like Oak and Maple I've been using the "Fine" threaded Kreg screws, for softer woods like Pine and even MDF I'd suggest the "Coarse" threaded screws, and I just assembled about a dozen Azek brick moulding assemblies using coarse thread, Blue Coat Kreg exterior screws. This was particularly nice, I preassembled all of the window assemblies in my shop space, drove them to the job site and simply fastened them in place, very helpful when working out in the cold in Minnesota winters. The Clam Clamps DO leave small points or holes in the sides of your casing. I know some users remove some of the points, other keep them razor sharp so they don't need to apply quite so much force.
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Post by 7 on Dec 23, 2014 23:21:49 GMT -5
Thanks Tom. That is a huge advantage to be able to assemble in the shop & transport to the jobsite for a quick install without needing to worry that the trim will break at the joints. I live in Utah & it gets really cold here also. It is beyond annoying when your glue starts freezing during installs and worrisome knowing the glue will probably freeze before curing properly. Sounds like even with an extra trip to the job site to measure it would still be an overall time savings to build off site plus your customer gets a superior product in the end and you get to stay where it's warm. Great points.
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Post by wrightwoodwork on Dec 24, 2014 6:54:55 GMT -5
Last month I was at a talk on offsite construction. Very interesting. At the moment the culture to the new homes is basically build new homes in the field. Where in car manufacturing they manufacturer in a factory for a very good reason. They can have fir more quality control and can keep the same quality all the way through. They also share a lot of platforms and depending on which manufacturer you go with determins the price yet basically the same car. If you buy bmw 8 series cost roughly £80000 then if you go for a rolls Royce £250000. Mechanically the same and different bodies. Not all offsite construction is offsite. Companies like laing and rouke will set up like a factory on the job site. To basically save on transport costs and logistics and time. Also not relying on external companies to be on time. In the uk we do a lot of open stick kit houses then get put up on site insulted sheeted, windows fitted etc. We have all struggled carrying windows around scaffolds. For it to be all done in the factory only takes an extra 15 minutes. I think in the construction industry we sometimes need to sometimes look at other industries ideas and how we can implicate it into our own sometimes. Traditional built homes are going to carry on. the problem with it is can't build fast enough to cover the number if houses needing built. I might be wrong but counties like germany are way ahead of other countries in there thoughts to offsite. When I was at the talk the companies gad being all around Europe to see how it is done and get ideas. In fact a lot of it dates back to post war when a lot of skilled labour had being lost. To build homes quickly in europe they had to come up with ideas that would speed it up. That's when the 32mm system started
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Dec 24, 2014 19:03:57 GMT -5
Hi guys, sorry for the delay. Be sure to have a look at the Clam Clamp website. While you're there check out Quips & Questions and Trim Techniques. Clam clamps work best with biscuits, I've experimented with just glue and with Dominos and prefer biscuits. The clamp's pins do leave small holes. I have used them on pre finished hardwood casing and was able avoid the holes by using thin plywood pads stuck onto the trim with double stick tape. It's time consuming and only worth it in special cases. Clam clamps are expensive, I have eight, if I did a lot of picture framed windows I'd get four more. They provide much more pressure then do spring clamps, and with the biscuits make strong joints quickly. I have no idea how they compare to miters screwed with the Edge Pocket. I have joined mitered 1 X 4 stock with pocket hole screws, if you can keep the joint level they work well which is why I'm interested in the edge pocket. Thanks for sharing your experiences Tom. As for the whole extension jamb vs beveling the trim vs bashing the plaster thing... In my opinion, whatever method best fits your needs is the way to go. In my experience, narrow casings benefit the most from beveling since you can't cut the plaster back very far. Clam Clamps w/ biscuits do help. Cutting the rock back is helpful but slow and messy. (For me, one of the selling points of the KSS 300 was using it off the rail with DC for this vary thing) Extension jambs always work but have their own issues. They are time consuming. To me, If they're less than 3/16" they look odd and are hard to make and hard to install. Just my experiences, yours may be different. FWIW I virtually never face nail extension jambs or window stool cap. The filled nail holes are obvious in the raking light. Hmm I suspect I'm preaching to the choir. Oh well, hope some got something out of this. Happy Holidays John Edit to add: Whenever possible I glue the trim to the jambs.
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Post by 7 on Dec 24, 2014 19:21:24 GMT -5
Good to hear that they work best with biscuits. I already own a biscuit joiner but don't have a domino etc. You actually might be the only one on this forum thats not evil suggesting tools that I already have:)
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Post by Knight Woodworks on Dec 24, 2014 19:31:17 GMT -5
Lol
Don't forget I AM suggesting a tool you don't have, Clam Clamps.
J
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Post by Tom Gensmer on Dec 24, 2014 23:23:33 GMT -5
John, I think you may have sold me on a few Clam Clamps as well! As stated above, I REALLY like my Edge Pocket, I really think that it's the way to go for production trimming. That being said, I always hate the idea of getting stuck in my ways or becoming a one-trick-pony, and there are DEFINITELY times that, as John (Knight Woodwords) has pointed out, ultimately you need to massage your mitered corners to make the casing sit flat to a wall, or persuade crown moulding into position, and from everything I've heard here and elsewhere, the Clam Clamps are the kings of miter clamps. Long term, I'd like to get a set of 4 to have available for trim projects, and grow from there. For light clamping, the Spring Clamps from Collins Tool Company are great as well. Granted, nowhere near the clamping force of the Clam Clamps, but they're great for clamping returns on baseboard, shoe, crown, etc....
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