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Post by Red on Jun 11, 2015 1:56:11 GMT -5
Well, this thread kind of blows me away. It wasn't that long ago that I thought of Mafell as a German tool maker who supplied timber framers with gargantuan power tools that chewed up and spit out chunks of framing timbers ...and they are, but, as it turns out, I'm slowly learning that they're into a whole lot more than big wood.
I hold an unrestricted builder's license, so, these days, we do what we must to keep busy. We're presently into an ICF construction job and, yes, we use a lot of cordless tools in the process ... and to address Tom G's original post, we decided to move away from multi-cordless platforms and invest our DC tool money into the Makita brand.
Having written that, I'd like to see a post or two from Mr. Tool Junkie in this thread. From what I've seen, he has experience with putting cordless tools to productive use and, consequently, his thoughts would probably be a good addition to this thread.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Jun 12, 2015 0:08:06 GMT -5
Lots of good thoughts shared in this thread. Funny about Hilti - I love their tools, but sold my 14V hammer drill and impact just a few weeks ago to consolidate platforms. They are one of the top companies to deal with and have great service. Quality stuff, no doubt.
I have currently have Bosch and Festool drills/drivers and like them both. I really like my Festool stuff - the batteries last for a long time and for me the interchangeable chucks are a must have. I have been saved more times than I can count being able to get into a tight spot with the right angle chuck or being able to drill into a corner with the offset chuck. Having everything in one package is key. I also really like the electronics of these drills - the electronic chuck is just nice - no grinding noises. Now that Festool has the 5.2 aH batteries in 15V and 18V, this takes these drills to a new level. While I do not have a PDC drill or the rotary hammer drill from Festool, these add immensely to the line and give some heavier duty drills to the lineup. I have thought about getting a PDC drill, but it would duplicate my Bosch Hammer drill, which is also very nice. I know that many hate the Centrotec system. I am heavily invested in the Centrotec bits and drills out there and like the quality and the system. I have some Snappy stuff too designed for Centrotec and it is nice too. With the different bit holders Festool has available I now take advantage of both hex drive and Centrotec drive bits and it works well.
In regards to Bosch, they are pretty well built, batteries last a long time too and they have a decent impact driver. They are well balanced and are built well - the only things lacking are the interchangeable chucks and no electronic chuck. But for an all-around rugged drill, I think that they fit the bill. Bosch does carry right angle drills in the lineup, but that requires carrying an entire tool body with you for that one purpose. I do not really like the accessory add-on gizmos that are sold - in fact one from Milwaukee is total crap and an exercise in frustration to put it to use. I have not found one I like and so that is why the interchangeable chuck systems are so great.
The Metabo is interesting since it has the interchangeable platform, but finding the different chucks in NA is not easy and might even be special order. Same goes for Mafell - and I think you will pay a hefty premium for the brand and color scheme and not sure if you really will get more than the Metabo for less money.
Fein also has a quad-drive drill similar to Festool's PDC. It has an interchangeable chuck like Festool, but only to replace the Jacobs style chuck with a quick change chuck similar to Festool's Centrotec system. The Fein looks like a really nice drill/driver and would be worth a look if in the market - it is an ASCM 18 QX model. Again, no right angle chuck so kind of a deal-breaker for me.
I am not a fan of Bosch's 12V line for drills/drivers - they just do not fit my hand well. I also never jumped on the Festool CXS bandwagon - I feel like the C12 or T12 drills offer more performance for slightly (at the time) more cost - the 12V drills have since been discontinued, but you can still get the slimmer batteries in the 12V platform and use them on a 15V or 18V tool for the same footprint.
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Post by henrun on Dec 29, 2016 16:03:24 GMT -5
After getting the Mafell KSS 40 I decided to consolidate my battery tools but having one platform is simply not possible as there is not a "complete" range of great tools in any brand set up in my opinion. With Mafell/Metabo I run the "sawing" operations: Mafell KSS 40, Metabo 216 SCMS, Metabo "multicutter", Metabo jigsaw and metabo small work light.
I recently added a Mafell A 18M drill to the kit to make it more "complete" for outdoor jobs and I could do a lot of jobs running only the "Mafabo" kit. I also got the Metabo KHA 18 hammer drill with chiseling function and it feels quite sturdy though I have only used it for light concrete drilling as of yet.
I will be adding the Metabo 18V LED work light as I am very impressed by it, I have used a colleagues on a few occasions. Other than that I might add an impact driver or sabre saw but as for now I am happy with what the choice of running the "sawing operations" with Mafell/Metabo. Since I have more 5,2 batteries than I really need (six of them!) and a couple of 3,1's I might as well get the work light and pick up a sabre saw. The sabre saw is probably good enough though I don't expect it to match my corded Milwaukee. It doesn't need to anyway.
I also run Festool 18V although it feels a bit limited. To be honest it is only the drills that keep me locked into Festool 18V at the moment, the T18 is simply to good to let go. I have the DRC which I almost never use and I have the Carvex 18V which I simply detest. I have the BHC 18 drill which I really enjoy using and it makes a good pairing to the T18 for me, though I would have liked it to be able to do light chiseling work. I am hoping that Festool will release a Vecturo 18V (though it would cut into my "Maftabo" set up if you pardon the pun. I have 70+ Vecturo/Supercut blades and the Metabo multicutter is "ok" but not as good as the corded Supercut I have. All said, Festool provides drilling/driving and aux power to my SYS Lite but other than that I don't find the Festool 18V range very fulfilling.
I used to run Bosch 18V and some of the Bosch tools are superb but I went into Bosch hoping it would fill all my needs but when it didn't I decided to split it into two platforms and ended up where I am now.
Other than Festool and Mafell/Metabo there are some tools that are simply not available in either platform such as a nail gun. After running a Senco Fusion 18V for years (great machine) I now run a cheap but very well working Ryobi nailer as a "one off" in a separate Systainer. Cheap enough as a stand alone product and I think it is better than a lot of the "serious" brand offerings like Bosch/Makita/Milwaukee which all seem to have failed to make a decent 18V/18G nailer.
If Fein 18V drills weren't so awkward in hand and I would probably have gone Fein for drilling/driving screws and the 18V supercut and then all the rest in Metabo.
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Post by arvid on Dec 29, 2016 17:39:32 GMT -5
After getting the Mafell KSS 40 I decided to consolidate my battery tools but having one platform is simply not possible as there is not a "complete" range of great tools in any brand set up in my opinion. With Mafell/Metabo I run the "sawing" operations: Mafell KSS 40, Metabo 216 SCMS, Metabo "multicutter", Metabo jigsaw and metabo small work light. I recently added a Mafell A 18M drill to the kit to make it more "complete" for outdoor jobs and I could do a lot of jobs running only the "Mafabo" kit. I also got the Metabo KHA 18 hammer drill with chiseling function and it feels quite sturdy though I have only used it for light concrete drilling as of yet. I will be adding the Metabo 18V LED work light as I am very impressed by it, I have used a colleagues on a few occasions. Other than that I might add an impact driver or sabre saw but as for now I am happy with what the choice of running the "sawing operations" with Mafell/Metabo. Since I have more 5,2 batteries than I really need (six of them!) and a couple of 3,1's I might as well get the work light and pick up a sabre saw. The sabre saw is probably good enough though I don't expect it to match my corded Milwaukee. It doesn't need to anyway. I also run Festool 18V although it feels a bit limited. To be honest it is only the drills that keep me locked into Festool 18V at the moment, the T18 is simply to good to let go. I have the DRC which I almost never use and I have the Carvex 18V which I simply detest. I have the BHC 18 drill which I really enjoy using and it makes a good pairing to the T18 for me, though I would have liked it to be able to do light chiseling work. I am hoping that Festool will release a Vecturo 18V (though it would cut into my "Maftabo" set up if you pardon the pun. I have 70+ Vecturo/Supercut blades and the Metabo multicutter is "ok" but not as good as the corded Supercut I have. All said, Festool provides drilling/driving and aux power to my SYS Lite but other than that I don't find the Festool 18V range very fulfilling. I used to run Bosch 18V and some of the Bosch tools are superb but I went into Bosch hoping it would fill all my needs but when it didn't I decided to split it into two platforms and ended up where I am now. Other than Festool and Mafell/Metabo there are some tools that are simply not available in either platform such as a nail gun. After running a Senco Fusion 18V for years (great machine) I now run a cheap but very well working Ryobi nailer as a "one off" in a separate Systainer. Cheap enough as a stand alone product and I think it is better than a lot of the "serious" brand offerings like Bosch/Makita/Milwaukee which all seem to have failed to make a decent 18V/18G nailer. If Fein 18V drills weren't so awkward in hand and I would probably have gone Fein for drilling/driving screws and the 18V supercut and then all the rest in Metabo. i agree the festool carvex jigsaw was a complete fail for me. it has sat so long you reminded me i need to sell it. now mafell needs to take their brilliant jigsaw and ad a a battery to it.
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Post by holmz on Dec 29, 2016 19:59:01 GMT -5
No they do not need to put a battery on it, they can do it, but they do not need to.
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Post by henrun on Dec 30, 2016 11:32:12 GMT -5
I would be very happy to see the P1cc in 18V - not that I desperately need it, but it would replace all my jigsaws if anywhere near the quality of the corded one. I usually don't bring my P1cc with me in the field, as much of my jig saw use is more than an extension cord away from a power outlet. The Metabo STA 18LTX is a very good jigsaw and it does the job. If I hadn't gotten the P1cc I would probably get by with it just fine. A Mafell "Supercut" on top of that would be sweet but I am not expecting neither a Multicutter nor a Jigsaw from Mafell. I am just hoping they will surprise me. Considering the advances in batty tech I think Mafell are at least looking into it. Though I didn't think it would happen anytime soon I am almost out of corded tools on the job. Pretty much everything I work with on site is battery operated and with the shared battery platform I could get four days of work done without running out of batteries, as it is today.
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Post by arvid on Dec 30, 2016 14:10:55 GMT -5
No they do not need to put a battery on it, they can do it, but they do not need to. i need them to but a battery on it. better? they did not need to put a battery on anything. but because they did i bought them all.
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Post by holmz on Dec 30, 2016 14:28:13 GMT -5
I am not a battery fella, but I found a great espresso place in Tuba City Arizona. I feel like I am at 36V!
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Post by aas on Dec 30, 2016 18:47:59 GMT -5
i need them to but a battery on it. better? they did not need to put a battery on anything. but because they did i bought them all. I'd also be happy to see a P1CC with a battery on...
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Post by henrun on Jan 4, 2017 15:54:05 GMT -5
aas: how is the Aerofix working for you? I was kind of interested in it a but haven't seen or found any personal info on how well it works (or doesn't work) and if there are any quirks to it. I have never seen it in action.
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Post by aas on Jan 4, 2017 16:26:18 GMT -5
Aerofix is great. Just got the longer hose - but haven't used it yet - the standard hose seemed to pull a bit too much for my liking. Only negative comments on the Aerofix - I'm not quite sure how they place the length... i.e. it's too short to do 1200mm / 4ft boards, and a bit long and cumbersome for 600mm / 2ft. I think I'll cut mine down to do 600mm boards, and add on an 800mm F80 for doing wider boards. The off-cut will come in handy for the P1CC. Otherwise, it sticks great, I'm using it with a Festool CTl Midi. I start the MT55 in the middle of the rail to turn on the vac, then reverse to start the cut. Would be a big plus if the rail included a 90 degree square built in to the Aerofix fitting - something I might print up and add.
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Post by huntsgemein on Jan 4, 2017 19:02:42 GMT -5
Hmmm. Comparing manufacturers' battery tool platforms & product suites... Just don't go there! Madness awaits within! I personally would'nt consider multiple battery platforms, despite being guilty of currently doing just that: Bosch 18 & 36v, Metabo 18 & 10.8v. "Don't do what I do; do what I say you should do." My justification (excuse) is that I'm progressively changing up brands. With the relatively recent advent of multivoltage/multibay chargers & dual battery higher voltage tools there's now even less reason to split one's loyalties.... www.metabo.com/de/de/info/aktuell/presse/ladestation-asc-30-36-multi-8/www.metabo.com/uk/en/info/news/highlights/36-volt-cordless-angle-grinder/However, all is not beer & skittles. Just as you think you've hit on a winning formula with brand X, the perfect size, incredible charge capacity, featherweight and a tool that will turn itself inside out to perform the very bestest job that you didn't thing was possible.... along comes a better mousetrap from brand Y. Smaller, less expensive, more powerful, longer lasting, a prettier shade of..... I've tried to apply the following formula & ranking to my tool purchases: what jobs am I doing? Of these, which particular tasks are the most numerous, difficult, and/or requiring a specialised tool from only one or maybe a couple of possible suppliers. What alternatives are there? Is brand x "good enough", or should I hold out for the very best taking into account the abovementioned tasks? What compromises should I make in other tools from the range just to get the best one for my most numerous/difficult/important tasks? Can I buy the tool/batteries/other consumables (specialist bits etc.) locally &/or quickly? Can I get it serviced/repaired locally? Finally & least importantly: can I afford it? There's just no "right answer" here! It's impossible, as each individual person's requirements, expectations, and aspirations differ. I was "on the tools" for a while as a full-time sparkie post-milennium. I required foremost a whole heap of SDS & Max hammers. From one handed babies for fixings to megajoule punching breakers. Sometimes (for those time-critical intensively used items) I'd double up to allow for breakdowns. I ended up with TEN hammers, of which only 3 would actually be regularly used for most of my required tasks, and 2 of which were totally redundant and another 2 completely unused! What a waste! I also really needed the best 5" cordless grinder I could afford. Although I used a drill several times each day, I was content to use a "compromised" choice/brand in deference to my more critical SDS & Grinder requirements. I assumed that just about ANY drill would perform the required tasks adequately, and that the SDS & Grinder choices were a higher priority. Other seldom used tools like lamps/lanterns and impact drivers were supplemented from my chosen brand as required, despite being less adequate to the task than an alternative brand's might have been. But of course, despite the very best intentions, and the application of rigorous & remorseless dispassion, the hoary old chestnut of bias inevitably creeps in to spoil everything. Some things I like; some I hate. And the net result of bias is of course... effective failure in both the objectivity required in making appropriate choices and ultimately in the systematic application of a ranking system. Hence the ludicrously embarrassing collection of rotary hammers! Then there's the small matter of some.... um...err... 14 grinders....
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Post by henrun on Jan 8, 2017 17:14:15 GMT -5
Wow, I have four grinders, actually three and the RAS - and I thought I had two too many...
I agree with the holy grail search and the futility of that. With my current set up I have actually come quite close with the sawing tools and the addition of the Mafell and Metabo drills round it off nicely with the KHA.
I did cut down on the Festool 18V to a bare minimum consisting of a drill kit in a SYS II with the T18+3 and BHC18 for kitchen fittings and interior work and got rid of everything else I had, a few drills and the dreadful Carvex.
The Festool CXS is my odd one out and I can't see myself replacing it, some weeks I hardly even look at it and other weeks it is my go-to drill for days on end. It is housed in a SYS I with a lot of extras so really handy to just bring along and the newer 2,6Ah batteries extend the use of the CXS considerably for me. Hoping there will eventually come a brushless CXS, I have worn out two CXS drills over the years, but I am not holding my breath.
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Post by henrun on Jan 8, 2017 17:15:08 GMT -5
aas: thanks for the info on Aerofix, not sure yet as I agree that the length is a bit odd. I have some rails I could cut down though.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Jan 8, 2017 23:26:24 GMT -5
Hoping there will eventually come a brushless CXS, I have worn out two CXS drills over the years Wow, @ henrun ...how have they worn out? I just got the TXS and love it -- for balance and weight. I hope that it is not going to be an issue and will last awhile.
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