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Post by poulkjaerholm on Aug 4, 2020 0:19:37 GMT -5
Hello!
First post here and I hope I am putting this in the correct area.
My wife and I recently purchased a home and after many years of waiting I finally have a space I can dedicate as a workshop. While waiting I have been researching what tools I would purchase once this day finally came and a quality track saw stood at the top of the list.
My dilemma right now is that I am trying to slowly purchase news tools for the workshop (for budgetary concerns) but I do not want to run the risk of being too "penny wise pound foolish" by delaying the purchase of some tools while we begin work on some house renovations.
Specifically - I have purchased a very nice piece of mahogany stock that will be utilized for floating shelves in the kitchen. Because of their prominence in the kitchen - I want to make sure I can get nice square cuts so the shelf sits flush with the wall and the sides are 90 degrees etc.
My question is - can I make due with my circular saw or am I running the risk frustrating myself and potentially ruining some nice lumber just so I can delay the track saw purchase by a few months? For relevant context - I do not own any quality squares (I have a cheap plastic one from about five years ago that may very well be square but I could not tell you). I am also not a framing carpenter or professional cabinet maker with a ton of time using the circular saw. All my wood working is done for fun on nights and weekends. The last time I used my circular saw was about five years ago to put together a cabinet carcass and my pieces were definitely not square. I promised my wife I would not drag out renovation projects so I don't really have time (or scrap wood) to work on practicing square cuts with the circular saw. I want to purchase a nice wood working square eventually but would like to put that money towards the track saw budget first (if that makes sense).
Am I over thinking it and it will be fine with the circular saw? What would you do in my position?
Thanks!
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Post by holmz on Aug 4, 2020 6:37:33 GMT -5
A peice of angle iron and a circular saw was probably the genesis of a track saw. And a spice of angle iron clamped to the mahogany and a jig saw would also work.
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Post by fuzzylogic on Aug 4, 2020 7:53:57 GMT -5
“… will be utilized for floating shelves in the kitchen.” “…I do not want to run the risk of being too "penny wise pound foolish" “…I do not own any quality squares (I have a cheap plastic one from about five years ago that may very well be square but I could not tell you)”
Given what you want to achieve in your kitchen, I would want a good quality spirit level – maybe two; a short torpedo type and a longer conventional one. You can get a cheap accurate one from any hardware store; but how durable will it be? For example, you might find the fluid with the bubble in it, over time, may dry out; similarly, over time, the colour of the fluid may slowly fade - making it harder to see the bubble easily. So, a ‘quality’ spirit level can be relied on to be more durable; which I think in the long term, would be money well spent.
Is your plastic square, square? Easily checked - Google is your friend.
As Holmz suggested, an appropriate length of clean angle iron clamped down will enable you to cut a straight edge; or, a straight length of timber / mdf would do the job also.
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Post by kraftt on Aug 4, 2020 9:13:19 GMT -5
What are the dimensions of the stock? How wide & how long & how many shelves? How wide is the base of your saw? How flat is the wall?
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Post by poulkjaerholm on Aug 4, 2020 11:10:05 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies.
1.) I do own a decent spirit level of about 3 feet which agreed will be critical for this install!
2.) I am going to look into testing my square to see if it is square - don't know why I did not think of that!
3.) The lumber is about 10 feet long, 11 inches wide by about 1.75 inches thick. We may add more down the road but right now we are installing two floating shelves of about 4 feet in length in central wall in kitchen.
4.) How flat is the wall - great question. I wish I had a better answer but I would say pretty close to being dead on straight based on how it is looking when I put my level against it.
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Post by kraftt on Aug 4, 2020 12:11:59 GMT -5
So with a sharp and appropriate blade and shelves being appox 11" deep it looks like you might have enough room to stabilize the base of saw on material and clamp a straight edge guide of some kind (?). But you didn't mention width of saw base or how wide your straight edge will be. You will also need to support and possibly clamp the stock. I would cut the stock to desired length of 4 ' first (or over 4' to square later depending) for the reason of finding a straight edge long enough for a full 10' cut and the possibility of deflection if straight edge is not wide enough or if you lack enough clamps at this time (could always tack it down along the edge and fill later).
Basically a track-saw is for convenience, speed & ease of cut setup, repeatability, just overall efficiency in achieving accuracy.
But a straight edge is pretty much a straight edge and to some extent a saw is a saw, so it should work well.
Indian more than the Arrow kind of thing... watch your fingers and wear PPE.
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Post by holmz on Aug 5, 2020 4:50:21 GMT -5
Or get someone to cut it?
Is it the 12" side or the 4' side that needs cutting?
The 4' side would need a jig saw to a pencils line if the wall was wonky.
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Post by aas on Aug 6, 2020 0:06:52 GMT -5
If you have the available funds to invest in high end professional tools for a home renovation project, go for it, but it's not 'necessary'. You'll get excellent results with a Makita track saw at half the price; you could also do this with a basic circular saw and home-made guide or straight edge. Experience and ability count for a lot more than tools.
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Post by MrToolJunkie on Aug 6, 2020 0:36:04 GMT -5
If you want the tools for other projects and you know you like woodworking, then nothing wrong with investing I high quality tools and a track saw is extremely versatile. But, if this is only for the shelves, then the saw you have will work and as others have said, you can easily use a piece of angle or even get a section of plywood or mdf ripped straight for a fence you can clamp.
I am not one to talk you into or out of tools. I have 7 track saws, so take that for what it's worth and how important a tool it is to me building furniture and cabinetry.
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Post by holmz on Aug 6, 2020 3:16:01 GMT -5
Where part of the world does the OP in?
A Japanese Pull saw at ~$40 is one of my most used tools.
And a hand plane, or a sander, or a hand sanding block could be more useful for this project. I would be looking at a decent sander and a vacuum pretty early on. Even the Mirka hand block with the hoses are a step up for in situ sanding inside or a house.
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Post by poulkjaerholm on Aug 7, 2020 10:33:31 GMT -5
Realizing that I left out what may have been a few relevant details on my first post – my apologies. 1.) I am looking at a track saw for my workshop full stop – the shelves project is just coming in about 2 months sooner than I was looking to purchase the saw. More specifically I was looking originally to purchase track saw October 1st of this year – now I am looking at ordering the saw this week (to help with shelves). 2.) I purchased a festool MFT/3 and while I now have a dedicated workshop space (it took me about 7 years to finally get here - like many of you I am sure) I want my set up to be as modular as possible with the ability to put away as many tools as I can when I am not working. I have dabbled in wood working, sewing, welding, aluminum machining (a machinist might disagree with that characterization ), bicycle wheel building, etc and I want a flexible workshop to accommodate various types of work at different times. I also recognize that as my workshop is part of a garage space in our house – it may need to be used for other things that aren’t related to projects (so sad I know!) 3.) On the wood working front – I am envisioning a track saw and some type of very portable table saw will be foundational to my workflow. The track saw will be used for breaking down larger materials and the table saw will be used for smaller cuts. I already have a router with fixed & plunge base, jig saw, circular saw and compound miter saw with stand so I think that will put me in a good place to get some work done (I have other tools of course - just trying to convey a sense of what I can currently work with). Dust extraction is on the list but I can also do cuts in the back yard while I save up and figure out the route I want to go with that. I want to focus most of my initial efforts on cabinetry and other box based structures. In response to Kraftt: Circular saw base is about 6 inches wide or so (don’t have it in front of me but that is approx.) so you are right that it is less than width of shelves. I agree with you that I should do a rough pass first to bisect the lumber at around 5 feet or so (lumber is 10 feet long) which will make it easier to square up edges and do final cuts on two pieces of shorter length. In response to Holmz: The blasphemy of suggesting having someone else do the work – how dare you! (clearly being sarcastic here – hope it conveys). There are certain projects I am outsourcing to professionals as I know my limits as a tinkerer / amateur craftsman – some of the more involved projects relating to plumbing and electrical I will be hiring licensed professionals to carry out. It is a very reasonable suggestion however I have a passion for this stuff and I want to do the work as daunting as it may seem at times. Both length and width will need truing up and from what I can gather the wall is straight enough that my jig saw will not be necessary. aas: Completely agree that experience and ability exceed value of tools – part of the dilemma is knowing that I need more time in my new workshop to gain that experience but I also promised my wife the kitchen would be done asap! MrToolJunkie: I think I bungled my initial post – I should have been more clear stating that I am looking at a track saw as one of the foundational tools for the type of workshop I want to build. Therefore, these shelves should be the beginning of a long life of use with the saw. Over the years I have purchased bargain tools wanting to upgrade soon or I dove right into the deep end buying a quality tool that could grow with me as I progressed. No path is the right one per se but in this instance I am guessing that it is more likely than not that I will use a track saw for a long time and therefore I would rather pursue the second option of buying quality once and being done with it. Holmz: I am in US – Southern California. I am open to suggestions for other tools such as you mention! I have seen these Japanese saws – if you have any recommendations for a good one for a beginner please share. I have some plastic devices that hold sandpaper for hand sanding but I am open to suggestions. I have a lot to learn and I am excited to continue along this journey!
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Post by aas on Aug 7, 2020 14:29:10 GMT -5
MT55 will do what you want. If you don't need to be connecting and disconnecting rails (i.e. not mobile and funds to buy different length rails), I would recommend going for the Festool rails with the Mafell saw - swap out the splinter strip with the black Makita strips. You have more options of clamps and accessories for the Festool rails, and they stick better to the work surface. The saw also sits inside the left raised section, so you have somewhere to hold on to the rail if need be.
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Post by kraftt on Aug 7, 2020 20:38:39 GMT -5
Ok then looking at the bigger picture, taking momentary budgetary constraints into consideration etc., I would be interested in hearing what everyone has to say about tools that actually save you money with home ownership. Sure it depends on the task, but there are maintenance issues that repeatedly return that bite into funds.
An example would be - should you invest in a drain cleaning machine/snake first to save a few thousand over the years, or tools that can serve both shop and home like would a quality portable dust extractor for the shop also serve as a great house vac (hepa) to save on also buying some Dyson etc. , you’re in SoCal so convince the wif that if you put in solar the savings will pay for some great shop tools that she’s welcome to occasionally look at.
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Post by holmz on Aug 7, 2020 21:18:53 GMT -5
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Post by aas on Aug 8, 2020 5:42:58 GMT -5
Ok then looking at the bigger picture, taking momentary budgetary constraints into consideration etc., I would be interested in hearing what everyone has to say about tools that actually save you money with home ownership. It depends on abilities - I once saw a video on the 'Real cost of DIY'... showed some pretty severe accidents of non-professionals 'having a go' with the real boys toys... not pretty.
Then there are the guys who are convinced they are 'capable' - one or two emergency call-outs later - of plumber, electrician for what ever has been cut/drilled etc., then of course the wasted materials, the bad finish and having to call in a professional to do the job properly.
Ignoring the regulations that are not complied with - risk of fire/collapse/mould etc., the regs are there for a reason!!!... and for everyone to comply with!
So when I read what is the best tool to do XYZ... it's an open ended question with no real reply; I'd have to say the same with what saves you money with home ownership - for someone with lots of qualifcations and experience - buy everything!.. it will save you money (at least here in France where the state is on the take BIG time!).. I limit myself to interior work, and have high end gear for all interior work; I pay for 'construction' - I no longer wish to do this so pay through the nose for this comfort!
I seem to remember renting tools/plant was a reasonable cost; in France, buying tools (well, anything actually) costs a fortune, so rental prices reflect this. If you need to rent for more than a week, it is cheaper to buy in from Germany.
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