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Post by henrun on Apr 6, 2018 0:34:21 GMT -5
Took delivery of the unit yesterday. Will add pictures tomorrow. Considering the Mafell compatibility I thought it might warrant a thread. First impressions: Unit is light. Mode Selector switch feels very cheap (ON/ECO/BOOST) and does not inspire confidence with no discernible indentations when selecting mode. Apart from that the unit feels fairly robust. Metal hinges for the shoulder strap. Plenty of room for the hose inside. I could even fit the new Festool hose for the MIDI (!) but just barely, and with some skillful bending of the hose into the cavities... Dustbag is 7.5L, pretty good size and quite a lot larger than the Festool CTL SYS. Dust Tray opens up at the bottom and fitting the filter bag didn't feel natural at first, I felt like I could not tell if the bag connected to the dust chute and when I mounted the filter on the dust chute at the bottom of the machine first I could not latch the bottom to the machine so I had to place the filter bag in the tray and drop down the machine on top and there is nothing that rally guides the bag in the tray except laterally so that feels a bit flimsy. I will compare the unit to the CTL Mini and the CTL Sys which seems to be the most fair comparison. Runtime on the Festools will be "unlimited" if you have access to an electrical outlet of course. The CTL mini (without Systainer on top) is not that much larger except for the wheels (which totally suck by the way) but it is heavier for sure and in my normal configuration it is both larger and heavier which makes it less suitably for the small jobs - but it is a great machine for my normal on site use. For sheer power the CTL Mini/Midi is more powerful by a comfortable margin. I think the CTL SYS might have more suction power too (from memory) but the CTL SYS is quite large for being so small and the bag is simply too small. The CTL SYS is comparable in size to the Metabo. The advantage of the Metabo will be onsite drilling and small fix up jobs where I can take the Vac straight to the task and not have to drag around a cable or have an outlet nearby. Runtime will be limited so I will see how well the ECO mode does for drilling with a drill attachment and if it does well that will suffice. With the BOOST mode on I think I need to be strict with running the machine and shutting it off as 20 minutes passes by swiftly on site for sure... I am not sure yet how great a battery vac will turn out to be but I am thinking it will easily replace the CTL SYS at half the price and at least perform on par for the work at hand. I think I will appreciate it as a go to vac for drilling and perhaps even on site for larger jobs as a side kick to the Mini/Midi or CTL26E, the Festool being stationary and for larger clean ups and the Metabo for running around and doing small stuff. The price of the Vac is competitive and if it gets used a lot it will feel like a very good buy. It would be REALLY nice if Metabo could churn out a transformer so one could run the Vac corded too. I think this is the way to go in the future: not either/or, but both. I have a small Makita battery Vac which is only good for drilling (but really nice for it) but the Makita dust bag does puff out some plumes of dust at times. Stay tuned for pictures on Saturday afternoon, CET.
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Post by chippiegary on Apr 6, 2018 7:29:59 GMT -5
Well done henrun I’m holding off buying till I come back from my ski hols “in a weeks time “ you are the man for tool reviews I must say not bought a couple of machines which I don’t need anyway on the back of your reviews top work , a cordless vac is what’s probably missing in my arsenal though , I’m not gonna expect too much as it will be a snagging /little job vac to compliment probably my kss 40. Thanks again
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Post by aas on Apr 6, 2018 10:53:47 GMT -5
I needed a cordless vac for quick jobs in ski chalets and appartments - couldn't wait for the Metabo, I got the Makita DVC861L 2x 18v. It's not systainer format, but a capable vac, and if the power is turned down, with a couple of 5,0ah batts it has reasonable run time. Unlike the Metabo, I can plug into the mains too!
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Post by chippiegary on Apr 6, 2018 11:01:50 GMT -5
I actually thought about the makita myself love the idea of battery and cordless “ only one on the market I think “ but price put me off where as the metabo is very cheap “maybe worryingly so “ ?makita I think are generally pretty spot on with their latest tools , friend of mine has the cordless plunge saw and it’s really nice to use “if only it ran on mafell /Bosch rails !
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Post by HenRun on the Run on Apr 6, 2018 15:31:08 GMT -5
Chippiegary: thanks man, trying to tell it like I see it. Aas: that Makita looked nice and I eyeballed it a little while back. I thought the canister/bag was very small for the size of the vac but I love the concept of cordless and mains in a small vac. I don’t remember the size of the bag but it looked quite small. I also looked at Makitas backpack-vac which isn’t too bad and seems to have gained traction on the market. If I was drilling a lot it would make perfect sense to strap on (...) the backpack and have it move along with you. Makita is being very innovative as of lately - not all are great innovations but they are sure heading in the right direction. Great for us - options galore!
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Post by HenRun on the Run on Apr 6, 2018 15:34:13 GMT -5
I actually thought about the makita myself love the idea of battery and cordless “ only one on the market I think “ but price put me off where as the metabo is very cheap “maybe worryingly so “ ?makita I think are generally pretty spot on with their latest tools , friend of mine has the cordless plunge saw and it’s really nice to use “if only it ran on mafell /Bosch rails ! Yeah, the Metabo does not feel as refined or ”solid” as the CTL SYS but for the price I think it will be a good addition and fill a gap in the setup. There have been times I have gone without the CTL SYS because corded might not have worked out well and those times the Metabo would have done the job for sure.
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Post by aas on Apr 6, 2018 23:45:08 GMT -5
The Makita vac is decent quality. I've really gone off the Metaloc systainers (they are fiddly and PITA to open/close/latch), and as such, wouldn't now want the Metabo vac.
I don't care too much about sac size, as a large full sac equals a heavy vac - and I want light and portable. It uses plastic sacs, so quick, easy and cheap to switch sacs. This is a 'quick job' vac for dust, etc., I'm not using it for sucking up loads of rubbish. If I need to do that, it's not the vac I'd bring on the job.
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Post by chippiegary on Apr 7, 2018 1:24:32 GMT -5
I noticed the bag system on the makita again a clever feature I thought , I guess you could use standard thick garbage bags at a push good idea . Think I would buy it despite the cost if it was systainer compatible “or is it , ?? On small jobs I tend to cut on a systainer mft so systainers/vac piled up on top of each other if that makes sense .
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Post by henrun on Apr 7, 2018 2:21:56 GMT -5
If you can fit standard bags that is a winner for sure! It seems it has very good suction when corded so that is also a plus. It can't be Systainer compatible with that shape. And on the pictures there are no latches. The Makita has abobut 8L which is a decent size though other vacs have solved fitting a larger canister into the body for better use of space. The Makita isn't large though, it is small. I don't think it is really smaller than a Festool Mini without the Sys. Also the Festool CT17 is probably on par for size and has a little over twice the bag capacity so no, not too impressed with the use of space. I do agree that having a large bag = a heavy vac at the end of the bag. The Mini/Midi (I have both trays so I have both machines in one) gets heavy with my Power hub on top and a full bag. Add a SYS II on top and it gets really heavy to lift up and down stairs without catching on the stairs. I think the Metalocs are "ok" - but the main point is that regular Systainers fit on the Vac. The three main drawbacks with the Makita is: Cost. It is an expensive unit. Granted you get both corded and battery option. It would make it worth the cost if it was a little better as a whole, being Sys compatible or other. Requires two 18V batteries. Once you run out you need a dual charger and TWO spare batt's. If you have any other Makita dual battery unit (like their mitre saws) you are neck deep in batteries for the two alone. Personally I steer clear of dual battery units as it practically means twice as many for spares too. I get that for some machines it is a viable solution but imagine having three dual 18V machines on site... ...I can't. No stacking Systainers on top, or under, which can be done with the CTL SYS and the Metabo. On small to medium jobs I pile some on top of the Mini/Midi and can do that on the Metabo too. Great to have a small pile in a corner at the end of the day given that I usually have a step ladder and other stuff too. I do like where Makita has gone with the idea but I would prefer a slightly weaker with just one 18V battery unit plus corded. I - being a vac whore - have the small Makita DVC350 which runs on one 18V battery and it works well for drilling concrete though the bag is a bit flimsy and is mounted on to the outside of the unit and is not replaceable other than as a spare. The unit fits - with hose - in a T-Loc/Makita Sys III which is really nice. On the last job I put the vac, nozzle attachment and hammer drill together with hand tools in the Mafell Sarcophagus cart and needed nothing else. Rolled up to the workplace with ONE cart. Very professional. But overall I am not sure I will use the DVC350 that much. I think I can round up my conclusion (that just dawned on me) that neither the Makita dual 18V or the Metabo 18V is 100% what I am waiting for and since they are not I picked the less expensive version with the least drawbacks for now. Investing in the Makita would cost a lot more and would tie up more batteries making it even more expensive. Also I think Metabo has better batteries in the upper Ah range - for now - so pretty happy with paying no more than what an extra drill would have cost and getting a pretty well thought out machine. A corded option for the Metabo could have taken it to the top of the market for small and useful vacs. If I had less Metabo gear and more Makita I might have gone for the backpack (despite only four liter bag) for small cleanups and drilling - even if it is 2x18V too. The backpack is on sale here at one Makita dealer and I have a regular jobsite which require about 800m walking (to and back) from the car so narrowing down loads from three to two and sometimes one trip sure is nice. At the end of the day when I need to put everything back and take care of the garbage (if any) that would equal up to 3 or even 4 extra km to walk in the afternoon/evening... ...even if it is indoors and I do cross country running in my spare time I hate that walk, I just want to get home and sometimes try carrying too much in one go only to have to make an extra trip anyway for something small but bulky... Two days ago I rolled the Mini with three Systainers on top, a folded stepladder and a bag on top, it caught an edge in the garage and ungraciously toppled over - spilling out the guts of two Systainers as the T-Locs came off. I couldn't parry as I was carrying trim in the other hand... ...all this because I didn't have time to go get the trolley from the workshop - and the trolley takes up space in the car and is quite heavy on its own. So. I figured I would muscle my way in today and it didn't pan out. But it is part of the job. Just trying to make it easier. I have looked at a folding cart (one swivel handle) that looks like a longboard (skateboard) and seems to fit two piles of Systainers and loads up to 350kg... ...never thought it would be useful to me but after the toppling over incident I realized I could have fitted it all on the longboard and then roll it easily in one go with the trim on top. THERE - are you happy now? I just talked myself into getting that "Longboard".
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Post by thehandyman on Apr 7, 2018 2:27:54 GMT -5
From what I've gathered, the new Metabo Metaloc vac cannot latch to systainers below or in top of. Is this correct?
They can sit on top but not connect. The base looks like it's just compatible with the rolling base.
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Post by henrun on Apr 7, 2018 2:51:21 GMT -5
From what I've gathered, the new Metabo Metaloc vac cannot latch to systainers below or in top of. Is this correct? They can sit on top but not connect. The base looks like it's just compatible with the rolling base. I will investigate this in about ten minutes, sitting down for breakfast and the Metabo vac is three stories down in the basement. Will take some pictures. I have two gadgets I need to put through their paces, the Metabo vac and a Makita mitre saw. I was dead tired this morning so I edited the previous post with my morning dizzy rambling thoughts...
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Post by henrun on Apr 7, 2018 3:04:11 GMT -5
I took another look at the Makita backpack: it only has TWO (2) liter capacity, too small for a dual battery backpack and no corded option. Too bad, makes it useless for anything other than drilling or light clean ups. Imagine hooking it up to a mitre saw - where would you put it? Prop it up against a wall? The bag would fill in no time.
For drilling I would be better off with the drill attachment for my Metabo KHA I guess.
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Post by chippiegary on Apr 7, 2018 3:10:28 GMT -5
You have a good point there handyman the lock on the base looks a bit offset not centre
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Post by henrun on Apr 7, 2018 12:04:05 GMT -5
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Post by henrun on Apr 7, 2018 12:15:41 GMT -5
Some images - nothing I put my heart in, just quick phone snaps. The size is pretty much the same as the Mini (if you would include the wheel base for the Metabo) and size is manageable. It is a very light machine. Tray is easily accessible underneath the machine - though I had not mounted the filter bag yet. My conclusion is that the major drawback is that the latches are indeed offset to fit the new wheel base. Unfortunately the offset latches means you cannot stack Metabo/Tanos/Makita boxes on the wheelbase or on the Vac itself. There are indentations on the machine so you can "place" Systainers and Metaboxes on top but not secure them in any fashion. This alone made me decide to return the machine next week. As a Vac I find it useful and manageable in size and it would have been a good addition for the Metabo/Mafell machinery - BUT that would only apply if I could stack one or two boxes on top/underneath the Vac and carry it off. The way it sits now it does not save me any trips carrying in stuff - it actually makes me able to carry LESS in one go. Don't know how they came up with this anomaly. My experience with Metabo has been that they have silently included cross compatibility in many products (drills accept Festool Centrotec, Multicutter takes all blades and adapter is included, Metabo track saw runs on Bosch/Mafell and Festool rails etc etc) so I was pretty sure it would be stackable and the slimline base board was appealing until I realized it will only fit the vac... As it stands I am off the battery Vac market until they come up with one that makes sense. Be it Makita or Metabo, or even Festool. Well, this means I might exchange the Vac for an impact - they are priced the same and I was thinking of adding the new impact anyway and just today I got a job for later on this summer building a small shed so the impact will come in handy!
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